[Suggestion] Automated AA turrets - always on stand by

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Iridar51, May 4, 2014.

  1. Iridar51

    1. How it is now

    For a player-used AA to be a deterrent is not enough, and an erroneous approach at its core.

    So let's assume a player, codename "Joey", noticed enemy air. He decided to be a great guy and pull AA. Then he proceeded to deter enemy air.
    Let's say Joey succeeded: he forced enemy air to leave. Happily, Joey switches back to ground gear. One minute later enemy air returns just to blow the Joey up. Distressed, Joey pulls AA again, and deters air again.

    Joey is smarter now. He waits a couple of minutes for enemy air to return. Then another couple of minutes. Short while later Joey realizes he just wasted 15 minutes of his game time doing nothing useful or interesting, just waiting for enemy air to show up.

    If Joey abandons his AA deterrent duties, he's taking a risk that enemy air will return to make his life miserable again. If Joey remains on standby and patiently awaits for enemy air to return, he's taking a risk that enemy air won't return, and he'll waste his time.

    If AA is to be a deterrent only, then it requires that a player has always AA on stand by. Even if we would imagine a theoretical situation, where players would receive exp just for sitting in AA turret and waiting for enemy air to show up, this activity would still be boring and poor gaming experience.

    2. Stronger AA solves the problem?

    So far we've established that using a deterrent for players isn't fun, and an ineffective way to both combat air and spend time. What if players could have stronger, more reliable air-killer equipment?

    Nobody likes pulling a Skygaurd just so he can make enemy air leave, to return a minute later and blow up everything. Or not return.

    If Joey could pull AA to kill enemy aircraft, he could rest easy, as he would know for certain, that at least this aircraft won't return any time soon.

    However, if AA was that strong, that would make life of air pilots as much as miserable as they're making lives of ground troops.

    While I think that stronger, reliable air-killers would've solved the problem for us ground troops, I don't think that entirely invalidating air game is the right way to go. We must consider other options.

    3. What other options then?

    One possible solution is to make AA equipment refundable. So if Joey pulled a Skyguard and deterred enemy air, he can drive it to any vehicle pad and deconstruct it and get a refund on acquisition timer and resources spent.

    That solves part of the problem - where Joey pulls AA equipment just to find themselves with nothing to do five minutes later.
    But the other part of the problem remains: Joey has to remain on standby to prevent further air attacks.
    Sitting around and doing nothing is not kind of experience players look for in FPS.

    What if the task of being on standby was deferred to "artificial intelligence"?

    4. Possibilities for AI-controlled AA

    1. Engineer-constructed unmanned flak turrets, that automatically fire on enemy aircraft within certain range.
    These could require an occasional resupply of ammo, have or not have a restriction to one deployed turret at the time, many possibilities for tweaking.
    The main function of these turrets is to be a always-on-standby air deterrent. By themselves they aren't enough to do serious damage, but strengthen the player controlled AA just enough to become a serious threat to enemy air.

    2. Additional AI in usual Phalanx flak turrets. When player isn't using one of the turrets, it automatically defers the control to AI. It's not as accurate as some of the better shooters, and has limited range, but, again, enough to convince enemy air to leave.
    • Up x 10
  2. lothbrook

    Adding automated anything to the game is a bad idea, better solution is to allow the swapping of loadouts on vehicles.
    • Up x 7
  3. Iridar51

    That solves part of the problem - where Joey pulls AA equipment just to find themselves with nothing to do five minutes later.
    But the other part of the problem remains: Joey has to remain on standby to prevent further air attacks.
    Sitting around and doing nothing is not kind of experience players look for in FPS.

    Unless Joey can swap loadouts on the fly, that is.
  4. Tommyp2006

    Werent turrets automated in ps1? It would mean that going around and repairing them was actually useful. Obviously in automated mode, the turret wouldnt be as powerful as if it was manned, it would either have its rate of fire nerfed or be less accurate. But if someone jumps into the gun and takes over, it returns to full strength.
  5. FateJH

    The mental exercise ignores the issue of people pulling Skyguards. Because people do pull Skyguards even when there is no Air in the current game and they do stick with driving them.
    • Up x 3
  6. Paragon Exile

    Not to mention that, again, this hypothetical completely ignores the fact that your whole "AA squad" isn't composed of one guy.

    AA, currently, teeters on the fine line between making air units useless and being useless itself, SOE shouldn't jeopardize this hard-won balance.

    I would like automated phalanx turrets though, provided they're just there to scare people away.
    • Up x 5
  7. EvilKoala


    Automated turrets would actually create a front line for air vehicles. No more lingering deep in enemy territory. I think all unoccupied turrets should be automated.
  8. NoctD

    Why? Cause people are too lazy to play AA and want to be left unbothered to play infantry?

    The tools are there, its just that people refuse to use them. Get better, or get farmed. That's all really.

    If you want to play a pure infantry game, then PS2 is not the game for you.
    • Up x 7
  9. KnightCole

    Id love to see the MBTs get AA Cannons lol. Kinda like the German 88 or the American 90mm...both were AA guns before AT.
    • Up x 2
  10. z1967

    Although the idea has merits, the community is very anti-AI as they simply want to face other players in this PVP based MMO. Granted, I do assume that AI turrets would also have AV and AI variants along with the AA variants to make things fair.

    Also, Loadout switching will be the day that I run around on the forums celebrating, finally, something that is not a nerf for tanks.
    • Up x 2
  11. Pathogenic

    Yes, we should all be pigeonholed into playing HA or MAX if we want to be on the ground and not get farmed. Useful contribution. :rolleyes: I'd be more than willing to use AA turrets if there were..yknow, more than three of them on the whole fricking map (Hyperbole before people get knickers in a twist). As it stands, I just swap to HA with a Hawk if I'm not in it, since my MAX is completely uncerted and a good pilot isn't going to let himself take dumbfires. But then the pilots want G2A lockons nerfed too :confused: So I dunno, guess I should cert MAX and never use grenades, C4, or MKs to make sure I can pull one whenever a pilot deems me worthy of the wrong end of his guns, and I should then stick around in a class I'd rather not play *just in case*.


    People pulling and sitting in Skyguards doesn't negate what Iridar said. It's boring for them if the air doesn't show up, and they have no option of tweaking their loadout. They still have to do it because they have to do it.


    The black/white of "Air is god" and "Air is lolled out of the sky" is not fun for either side. It's a major source of all this animosity.

    Aaaand finally, @Iridar

    I touched on it above, but I would mostly like for there to be *more* AA turrets first. Then perhaps some dumb automation so they're not just freefarm when the attacking force gets there first. Other than that, maybe an AA utility slot. Tankers and MAXes would be happy about a reason for Infantry to not carry C4.
    • Up x 1
  12. UberBonisseur

    There is another solution...

    It's useless to have AA turrets all around the base if you're already getting pounded by a Lib and can't reach them.
    Defenders should have remote access to wall turrets from within the spawn room and swap between them by pressing F1-F12.

    Bigger bases are usually better. Bigger bases also mean defenders have to walk from out of their spawn a bit more to reach the external layer, where the turrets usually are.
    When a base is capped, all the air moves to the next base. If defenders have not redeployed and manned all the turrets yet, there's a good chance aircraft will be there before them and prevent defenders from reaching turrets.
    • Up x 5
  13. z1967

    That could work or we can:
    -Make Skyguards one clip Libs
    -introduce skill based AA in the game
    -debuff libs against AP/HEAT/HE tank shells
    -reduce Lib agility to make ESFs better against them
    -make AA mines in the form of laser tripped rocket tubes
    -add a "C4" equivalent high danger high reward weapon against Libs and all aircraft
    -buff AA to where it is perfectly reasonable that the most specialized weapons in the game could actually do their job
    -buff AA against other ground units so they are actually useful after a fight.

    Just some ideas, not all of them at one time but cherry pick the best ones out.
    • Up x 3
  14. Iridar51

    Of course they do. People do a lot of weird things. Like doing achievements. This doesn't mean it's a good system.
    Requiring a whole AA squad just strengthens my position. The issue of "notice enemy air, pull AA, deter, get bored" multiplies by the number of people in said AA squad.

    Of course, when they work together, and perhaps bait the aircraft to come closer in compromised position before opening fire, they get increased chances of destroying the aircraft. But that requires organized outfit level of coordination, and seems like a lot of effort needed every time when confronted with enemy air.
    Organized outfits can accomplish anything, and I don't think they're a good measure of game's state.

    Should PS2 be considered raiding environment akin to MMORPGs? Compulsory use of VOIP, strict schedule, huge number of pre-requisite certifications and game experience? Is this a game or a job, for Higby's sake?

    Did you even read past the title?
    • Up x 1
  15. Hatesphere

    I have always wanted the base defenses (both AA an AV) to be automated to some extent and controlled by a device similar to a gate generator. it might even make bases defensible with smaller numbers, since you can leave the base to distract the zerg while your smaller force helps out.

    its not that people are to lazy, its that people have no reason to in most instances, since it is not rewarding. the AA system in this game is woefully broken. due to the nature of aircraft and how they are easy to get line of sight on in the air, the AA stacks to quickly but is underpowered in small encounters. it results in some strange disparity as well when it comes to resources required to actually kill some aircraft (libs and gals).
    • Up x 1
  16. NoctD

    Yes - all I saw was lameness.

    AA is actually fun to do - I don't get all you people that think its such a drudgery to pull AA. I love to pull my Burster MAX and Skyguard when the opportunity presents itself. This game is about combined arms - and so many people want to throw all that away and treat it as mainly an infantry FPS, with everything else secondary. I've spent entire alerts just doing mainly AA MAX at an amp station for example. I'm usually one of the few if not the ONLY though... everyone else is far too busy chasing kills around the base.

    People need to get out of this terrible mindset - let's say you're manning an AA turret, you can ditch it and switch to the nearby AV turret, you can pull our engineer turret, etc. You're NOT limited to doing just AA. I do this too. Its sad how little people use the tools we are given in the game, free tools, that are powerful in their own right. And no, AA is not too weak today... there's a bit too much Lib spammability but that can be addressed in other ways.

    Like I already said - AA automation is just promoting player laziness and further eroding the combined arms aspect of the game.

    Another example, one alert I played AA MAX on top of Allatum Broadcast, the WHOLE alert, while there was a 3-way going on inside the biofarm. It was glorious and fun, great certs. Sure I wasn't racking up zillions of kills to pad my K/D, but it was sweet nonetheless.
    • Up x 2
  17. z1967

    • Up x 11
  18. Pacster

    Tools are there..but they ain't rewarding. If you force air to stay within their hex then we'd see no air around either. The situation right now is that you spawn AA and you are either getting killed(cause 1vs1 air is actually stronger than AA) or the aircrafts will leave the area within seconds and you are standing around doing nothing(well, or you slowly run after them...and getting slaughtered on the way cause AA is pretty much defenseless against anything but air). AA currently means to "take one for the team"...unlike mechanics and medics you do not even get a decent amount of certs for it cause you are usually not even killing the aircrafts(they can bail out easily).
  19. Iridar51

    You're right, there's a lot of people that perceive air as an interference to their ground game. And it is a drudgery and a distraction to pull AA if the only thing Joey is trying to do is to play against other infantry.

    Perhaps for once SOE will cave, and introduce an infantry-only mini-continent. Then all those boring whiny infantry players will finally have a place to go, and "combined farms" people will live happily ever after on the empty Auraxis :rolleyes:
  20. Brahma2

    I post this idea, no one gives a ****... **** you forumside.