Aurora, Siegebreaker, Paladin

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by Demigan, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Demigan

    So I tried all 3 out today, didnt do any TTK analysis but this is just a general feel of all 3 weapons.

    Siegebreaker: this seems to be the most solid of the three. It seems to deal good damage, or actually a ludicrous amount of damage and it has some large projectiles with a slight laser-guided ability. They still have shell drop but can be steered more to the left and right than you originally aimed making it easier to hit targets. And ease of use weapons often become OP in PS2.
    The Siegebreaker seems to be doing a lot of damage against both infantry and tanks. I have a feeling that if you checked TTK numbers that this weapon might even edge out a point blank Vulcan. If someone wants to check that in-game please be my guest.

    Aurora: this is probably the most balanced weapon of the three. It is a Halberd that trades in damage and muzzle velocity for abilities and some good gimmicks.
    The Aurora can charge up in 5 seconds and charges 3 times assuming the sound cues are right as the HUD doesnt work yet for this weapon. You can pre-charge the weapon and hold it for release seemingly indefinitely. Each charge adds 20% damage for a whopping 60% extra damage... but over 5 seconds of charge that means you are actually losing DPS. also currently the charge does not seem to be adding damage, so its not functioning.
    The Aurora projectile is a horizontal line similar to the charged bolt fired from the Aphelion. This makes the projectile broad and easier to hit a target. There is also no projectile drop.
    The projectile also takes the NC penetrating ability, allowing you to penetrate infantry, tanks and aircraft. Put 3 infantry a tank and aircraft in a row and you'll hit every one of them for the full damage.

    Paladin: it is supposed to be a ranged AV weapon but it deals most damage indirectly through a small but strong AOE (I thought 600 damage AOE but didnt OHK Infiltrators). It only fires after +/-3 seconds of charging, deals 300 direct damage per shot at a more favorable resistance than the Enforcer. It has a single shot per magazine and 1.8 seconds reload. Despite its relatively high muzzle velocity (400m/s) it has a noticeable drop and the long charge with a forced discharge at the end make this a cumbersome weapon with low damage output. Its most favorable ability seems to be that headshots are multiplied and you can deal a high damage against MAX's in a single hit or OHK infantry... which the Halberd can do without a headshot or charge-up.
    • Up x 2
  2. DemonicTreerat

    So yet again the VS get something that requires zero thinking ability to use with NC perk, the TR get something that beats down everyone with easy-to-use dps, and the the NC gets something meh that is crippled by so many requirements that you might as well just stick with NS weapons.

    Wrel of the tiny ***** and huge ego strikes again.

    It should be ******* simple. Scrap the Aura's "Saron/ Lancer with NC perk stolen" model and turn it into a basic plasma mortar ala HALO's wraith tank. Still big damage, nice large blast & sets things on fire but useless at close range and requires the VS to learn how to judge distance and aim accordingly. Then remove the Paladins charge up time, move all the splash damage into direct hit, remove the drop, and give it the piercing ability.

    No more of this lazy ******** stealing abilities and playing blatant favorites.
    • Up x 3
  3. Demigan

    Yes it's weird that the Aurora get's basically what I and probably others have proposed for a type of NC Gauss canon almost word for word with some extra's. The only thing they didn't copy-paste is the velocity increase as you charge.

    The VS could easily get some other type of ability. Say you charge up to overheat the plasma and when released this charge up causes a DOT effect as the plasma remains burning on the target? How about you fire a shell with a hover ability, meaning the shell will travel along the ground until it either hits something or reaches 1000m? That type of shell would have advantages hitting long-range targets but when you try to hit someone partially hidden by cover the shell might push itself over the target. Or take your own idea, what if we made it a Howitzer. You can fire it directly or when necessary indirectly, with the indirect version using an AV grenade AOE (but not necessary damage) and perhaps leaving a temporary burning field that sets infantry and vehicles on fire?
    • Up x 1
  4. Campagne

    Just quickly tried them out. Well, what can I say, I'm not surprised.

    The Siegebreaker seems like the Gatekeeper 2.0. Fires red rockets in an automatic fashion with little drop and very good DPS. Even has multiple barrels. Only thing now is they have the light wire-guided mechanic for when ya' gunner is too much of a mouth-breather to lead properly. Why have we come circle so soon?

    The Aurora seems pretty decent. Obviously needs a lot of work still, no reticle to aim with doesn't really matter with the huge *** projectile but still. Animations would be nice.

    If put to live with the passive piercing mechanic there will be two VS weapons with a peicering mechanic tacked on for free while having only one NC weapon with the mechanic, which comes at a cost and was heralded as what makes the Bishop special.

    Actual combat effectiveness seems decent, but this is without an ability to charge shots. The damage done per burst wave is quite high, I'm sure using it as a anti-vehicle sniper (especially against deployed sunndies for that multi-infantry hits/kills per shot) will be very effective. Hopefully it won't be too powerful.

    As expected the Paladin is quite crap. DPS isn't terrible but it's not very good. With only a minor projectile velocity advantage but still a heavy drop I imagine it becoming what the Enforcer is to the Halberd... To the Enforcer.

    Also gotta love that unenjoyable hindrance mechanic of a firing delay, because that makes for fun gameplay and popular weapons. Where is the SB's hindrance? The Aurora at least has a pseudo delay with the charge, but that can be held until the user is ready to fire or simply tapped quickly. The damage is rather meh, and having half the Enforcer's magazine but only marginally better damage and reload doesn't make me really want to use it. Just give us a Vulcan for **** sakes, that'd probably still be more effective at range than this junk.
    • Up x 2
  5. InexoraVC

    Should we test it in Koltyr VR? I can play for Vanu. All thoughts and suggestions we'll post in a new thread
  6. DemonicTreerat

    As good as those are, there is one insurmountable problem. Wrel. Aside from being an idiot who only plays and cares about "MLG Pro" (cough hack cough) infantryside where NC in theory have a tiny edge (if you can chain 5 head shots on every target), he has made it patently clear that he is grossly biased towards the VS and rabidly anti-NC. Why I can't begin to guess aside from his having a tiny dick, but its besides the point. Until he is gone for good nothing substantial will change.
    • Up x 1
  7. Demigan

    (Quoted from another thread but discussing it here made more sense)

    Lets re-imagine the Halberd as a Paladin, lets call it a PalHal.

    For starters the Paladin has a lower total damage output, 900 if you combine direct (300) and indirect (600) damage. Compared to the 1100 of the Halberd of which 600 direct damage it means the Halberd can OHK infantry and deal more damage to tanks per hit. But lets ignore the exact damage against tanks and assumw there is a favorable resistance type that lets the PalHal deal equal damage to tanks as the Halberd.

    The PalHal also has a different reload. The Halberd has 3.25 seconds of reload. The PalHal has 1.8 seconds reload and 3 seconds charge-up for a total of 4.8 seconds per shot. So a lower DPS.
    It also means you cant fire immediately when you see and aim for a target. You still have to finish "reloading" 60% of your total reload! So even as the fight begins you are behind on your opponent. And if the Halberd has certed into reload speed it can fire a second shot before the first shot from the PalHal! because the charge-up takes longer! And because you cant hold the charge and release the shot whenever you want you have to aim at a target much longer and hope to release at juuust the right time to hit the target.
    And attachments are much less effective. The reload attachment for the Halberd knocks off 10% of 3.25 seconds. The PalHal also knocks off 10% but only from the 1.8 seconds of reload, not the full 4.8 seconds it takes to fire and reload a single shot!

    And for all this the PalHal gets... almost double the muzzle velocity? Dont get me wrong thats pretty useful, but with how the weapon is neutered...

    How to make it better? Well having the weapon be forced to fire when it's charged is very detrimental to your aim as you lose some control over the situation and because of the time it takes to fire you are quite literally a whole shot behind on a Halberd and that difference is only going to increase. Due to the longer time between shots and damage output the PalHal wont outperform a Halberd if you are allowed to hold the shot after charging. And the VS gets quite literally the ability to hold its shot until they want to release it! So why not give that to the PalHal too? It means the player can hold the shot and release it when he knows he gets a hit.
    But that would mean players will constantly be holding the trigger, thats no good. So we could just remove the charge and add it to the reload instead. Now the PalHal is basically a Halberd with higher velocity, longer reload and less damage per shot.

    Imagine that, even after making sure you can fire instantly when your reload is done the PalHal is still a weaker Halberd. Contrast to the VS that gets to fire through enemies with a large projectile and increase its damage by charging and the TR getting basically a medium-ranged Vulcan/Gatekeeper lovechild with light laser-guidance and almost as much drop at range as the Paladin and you have to wonder, why are almost all the "special bits" on the NC version detrimental to it?
    • Up x 2
  8. typnct

    You forgot one thing, the gatekeeper is ****
    This is the nc version of the gatekeeper

    Its gonna be useless and non competetive just like the gatekeeper

    Sounds bad, doesnt work.
  9. Demigan

    How Typnct of you. There's a high-DPS easy-to-use weapon for the TR that will likely be OP like the Vulcan is or the old Gatekeeper and you think it's going to be useless even before you've actually used it.
  10. typnct

    Im not talking about the siege breaker, im talking about the paladin
    It just doesnt cut it in competetive fights in any distance

    I know the siege breaker is gonna be better than the halbert, no complaint here

    And yeah ive tried the paladin in a few test fight, its gonna be the new gate keeper

    Edit: how lovely of you missing everything i said and skewing it to your dislike
  11. Demigan

    My apologies, I've seen too many people defend OP or unbalanced stuff lately. Because you didnt specify the Paladin after mentioning a TR weapon I had compared to the Siegebreaker I assumed you were talking about that. I think you'll agree that it is an easy mistake to make.

    You might say "but I mentioned NC", but NC is usually equalled to high damage which this weapon does.
  12. iDante

    can a guy thats balancing weapons stop sucking Vanus dicks?like seriously this is going too far already
  13. iller

    This game *really* needed a laser-guidance cooperative Artillery setup like a lot of RTS games always used to have back in their HeyDays. It's really unfortunate that opportunity has been continually squandered when it comes to the interior Base fights + Armor meta. These other 3 top guns they're trying to add at this point are only re-inventing the Wheel and that's just not EXCITING.

    The most confusing thing about their decisions so far in my opinion, is that they already added the whole Artillery functionality in with the "Flail". ...they were ALMOST there.... all they had to do was just make an MBT top-gun that mimics the SC SiegeTank turret ... IoW: the 2nd player who would normally be the gunner ... locks the Turret in an upright Howitzer transformation (doubling its A.V. & C4 resistance just like a Sunderer Shield) before they exit the Tank and this lets them equip the Laser Guider same as the Flail provides. BUT the MBT's primary gunner could still move the tank around and try to survive in Solo fire mode while the top gunner did the whole Flail targeting thing.

    The MBT obviously shouldn't be allowed move at full speed for a period of time after doing its Siege Artillery salvo and the Laser guider couldn't target anything too close to the MBT itself (same as the Flail). HOWEVER it could target the interior of a Hex unlike the Flail. That would make for some really interesting 2-man teams that weren't just Automatically always Engineer plus other Engineer ... you'd also have your Medic + LightAssault, or you could even have a.v. Heavy + Crossbow Stalker who both hop out of the Artillery tank in order to kill an enemy Lightning or Vulcan. (Anything can happen under the current "Combined Arms" mechanics, Amirite?)

    I think he's only doing that b/c the Magrider honestly kind of SUCKS out in the open and 3/4's of the current Continents we're still playing on have mostly Flat or linear-slope Terrain that favors squads of Vanguards and Prowlers over the Mags. ... HOWEVER, I'd preface that by pointing out that the Vanu are essentially "easy-mode" when it comes to actual Infantry fights and especially in infantry FARMS. So if he's going to keep buffing Mags and VS top-guns in general then he better the **** start slowing down the TTK of nearly all Vanu infantry weapons so that they actually have some sort of downsides to them in CQC (except for the heat weapons!...they already have a downside)
  14. TR5L4Y3R

    so explain to me why the gatekeeper has this much of a bad rep?

    from what i tested in VR while it is a burst than a alpha weapon it kills vehicles in less bursts than shots with the halbert ..
    and because of its burststylefire you can still get out some damage than completely missing ...

    imo the mjölnir is rather the worst of the current live turrets were you may as well pick the fury over it for a high ammo, indirectfireturret ...
  15. Clipped!

    The paladin needs it's charge up time to be reduced to be similar to a railjacks to be even considered using. A three second delay after pressing the trigger is just insanely unusable both in ease of use and dps wise. (I haven't actually tested this new version)

    Personally the version I tested before it got changed to it's current pts state was a worse saron. Five round clip, 150 ish damage per round, 2 second reload, 400 m/s projectile speed, a very brief fire delay and a one second-ish refire delay. Should just use the version I tested but with 200 damage per shot and less bullet drop and it's good to go.
  16. Lord_Mogul

    Might aswell do that:
    It got no effective range where something else isn't better.
    The Halberd is way more effective at range. The Vulcan is still uncontested up close.
    While I agree that the original Gatekeeper was a bit much, after like 3 nerfs and a complete change of mechanic it sits sort of a useless spot.
    On Prowler you go Halberd for the effectiveness at range, which fits greatly with how the main gun tends to be used.
    On Harasser its either also the Halberd for the same alpha dmg with range, or Vulcan for those nasty surprise attacks.

    Tests in VR can't really show either of that, atleast not when fighting against moving targets that actively try to avoid getting shot and fire back.
  17. TR5L4Y3R

    the gatekeeper is not meant to be a closerangeweapon anyway so rather let´s compare it to other mid to long range topguns ..

    in which case i would consider the saron the best of them even though it has less alpha per shot

    the problem with the halberd is it´s hit or miss HARD
    the enforcer ... imo has less effective range due to its bulletdrop even though it has more shots per mag ...
    so i FEEL the gatekeeper is there somewhere inbetween the enforcer and halberd ..

    the vulcan is a no brainer for close up topguns
    the mjölnir imo is just straight up terrible ..
    and the aphelion while not bad is .. ... gimicky ...
    bulldog (for cqc topguns?) is decent ..
    and basilisk is .. well it´s the basilisk ..

    no idea what to think of the more AI focused topguns ..

    fury is decent, kobalt is a friggin lawnmower .. buldog as a AI turret hits like a truck ...

    cannister looks fun at least ...
    ppa ..... is flashy ..
    and marauder ..... ehhhhh ...

    the problem here is you have better NS options were i feel many of the ES topguns are simply redundant other than for personal playstyle ..
    when it comes to the gatekeeper however i personaly think it´s not as bad as people make it out to be ..