Attitudes.

I'd rather be a standup comic using blue material at a Church picnic.

Regular complainers will complain [1st degree], above average complainers will complain about other people complaining [2nd degree] (for example OP of this thread).

PS: Step higher than above average complainer will complain about complainers complaining about complainers [3rd degree] (for example my sarcastic post).

Would anyone like to move this thing up to 4th degree? Also follow up question, does productivity or help to devs increase with increasing degree of complaining?

Quote of the millenium.

Listen buddy, I think you've severely misunderstood something if you believe that any CEO of any company is in it for the art.

SOE and Sony are a business company and they are about making a good income. That means there's a CEO, a board of directors, the marketing department, hundreds of devisions and subdevisions, product managers etc etc etc and at the very fraking buttom you have the "artists". AKA developers.

Apart from the office maintenance and cleaning lady, they are the lowest links in the chain. Meaning, they don't decide which direction the product is to go in, hell no.

So when people whine and rage over SOE it's not directed at the developers. It is directed at the marketing department for chosing the priorities of the developers.

Those priorities are "how to make more players buy SC or subscribe". <------- THAT's the number priority. Not balance, not bugfixes, not revamps, not stability or anything like that.

It is ALL about new content that sells and keeps paying customers playing the game.

Funny how the whole rotten shack comes tumbling down when the foundation (read: 1st degree complaining) is removed, eh?

I am well aware of the mechanics of art as a business. It's my job, after all. While the folks at the bottom of the heap of that particular heirarchy are the people who actually produce the work, they are also the ones who get lumped with the redundancies and job cuts when it all slides down the pan. That is the case even if the "problem" (if one exists) is located at the top of the tree. As a consumer, the best thing that can be done is to calmly and without fuss provide feedback in a manner which doesn't involve simply screeching about how much you hate something, despite continuing to use that product.

Lets assume the painter was painting two dimensional representations of a donkey that is standing side-on to the viewer, and someone came along and said "That donkey is missing two of its legs". The painter would explain that the donkey is standing side on to the viewer, and is painted in only two dimensions. The other legs are hidden behind the legs you can see.

However, in the games industry, the painter would explain that, then Joe Public would get mindblowingly and absurdly angry over such a trivial thing, because "clearly only a moron would paint donkeys like that, and he's obviously an incompetant painter".

The painter's boss, who pays him to paint donkeys, would come along and say "give it more legs".

So the painter would paint a three dimensional donkey with all four legs attached. The painter's boss would look at it, and say "Good... This is definitely better, but can you put any more legs on it? The public wanted more legs, so we gotta give them more legs, man."

The painter would sigh, die a little inside, throw away his university fine art degree certificate, and start work on the nine legged donkey painting.

This would be presented to the public, who would quite rightly say it was mindblowingly stupid, and wouldn't buy it. The painter's boss would then fire him, and all the people who were really enjoying buying the two dimensional donkey pictures, would wonder why it was that nobody was painting them any more.

Someone please move this thread.

Peoples attitude is not a gameplay topic. If you want to talk about forumsiders attitudes, there is a section called "Off Topic"

I must concur with BobSanders123. Please move this thread to the appropriate area.

Too many ******** nerds on the forums imo. Its just a game and you shouldn't get too attached to it. Its being developed with F2P in mind which generally means a less regulated product when compared to paid games which want to make your money's worth. I'm not saying that all paid games are great but most big titles like Skyrim are very fine tuned and regulated as they wanted to fulfill the value of a $60 release at launch. I would say the best idea is to delete the forums and have players give ideas either on reddit or more preferably on twitter. Force people to actually play the game rather than trashtalking about a game that they say they love but don't even play. Toughen up.

A large number of the people with this attitude (other than the simply frustrated new players) are those who have been around this game since release. Those of us like myself who have been trying to give them constructive feedback on ways to improve the game, or glaring issues that the game has. Many of us are simply tired of seeing a game we know has so much potential fall so far below what it should be. At some point, you get burned out from shouting into a black hole for two years. That's when these attitudes develop for the long time players of the game. They've given us hope so many times that the game will see significant progress or improvement only for all of it to fall flat on it's face, not to mention the number of systems we've seen only half implemented or left in stage 1.

Problem is that among complaints of the so called 1st degree, there is actual constructive feedback. True not all of it by far, but some is very useful.

One could easily make an argument however that everything higher than 1st degree is pointless .... even counter productive. I personally would agree with that.

Funny, being constructive and offering actual, thought out suggestions, or at least comments to their plans on the roadmap, isn't helping either.

Perfect, exactly what I'm trying to achieve. This game isn't worth spending time on. Keeping people away will just spare them the pain of playing a half arsed excuse for a game and witnessing it wither and die because of failed management.

If there's an effort behind making the game better, they sure have a bad way of communicating that. There are still as many huge issues as there were two years ago.

There's a difference between selling good gameplay, and selling items with obnoxious prices and minimal impact on gameplay. 60% of weapons don't even have a reason to exist, they're so similar to other weapons.

Been there, done that. No effect. So why bother. Management seems to be quite content with running game into the ground, why should I bother more than they do?

Hey man... Look, I've got the greatest respect for you n this community. You've spent your time making some great content for the community, guides, tips, good videos and so on... But I really have to pick up on this.

If you're not enjoying yourself, then fine - Just quietly slip away and stop playing. That's cool. But it's not your responsibility to make judgements as to what other people are going to enjoy. It's not your responsibility to tell people where they should spend their money or time.

Hell, I think people playing WoW or EVE is a waste of time and money, but I don't hang around their community and tell the players I think that. Doing so would be stupid, pointless and would achieve nothing aside from finding new ways to embarass myself in a public forum... Your value judgement is no more or less valid than anyone else's value judgement. If you really believed it was a hopeless case, you would extract yourself from the community and simply stop giving a damn.

The fact you hang around here making statements and the fact you last logged into the game yesterday evening (Thanks planetside universe) rather betrays the fact you still gain enjoyment from the game. If you don't, then I suggest you really consider why you're still playing and still using these boards for discussion.

If you really didn't enjoy the game, then doubtless you would find not playing and not discussing is a more enjoyable experience, as your time would not be wasted on doing stuff that you don't find fun. Trying to tear the place down isn't a worthwhile or enjoyable use of time either.

Many of the complaints directed at the game are made by people who are supremely selfish in their outlook.

Much of the angst focuses on this or that weapon being OP or some such. Probably as the result of having their prefered method of game-play disrupted.

Like the tank drivers claiming C4 is OP when that driver most probably sits in the tank spamming spawn rooms next to a building or under a bridge.

Things like that.

The truth is the game is remarkably well-balanced and the devs go to great lengths to keep it so. Although people will start to complain once their favorite farming method is taken away after an adjustment.

The real issues with the game other than abysmal performance for many, have been what many see as the slow erosion of the original ideals surrounding PS2. The reduction of the game to a small base, small team, competitive ethic ham-handedly fused to an "epic" gameplay experience.

The direction of the game seems lost under a pile of seemingly abandoned ideas or half-hearted attempts.

Most things introduced have little to do with depth, faction development or team-play and continue to focus on the individual and their stats. Indirectly increasing the tendency by players to farm or zerg as much as possible.

While many complaints are just exercises in whining or posts made by contrarians, some are heart-felt feelings that the game is slipping away from them in some fashion and feels like another in a long line of missed opportunities.

The devs, rightly or wrongly, will be the focus of those complaints.

It comes with the job and they know that.

A bit of both TBH ..

In some area's they don't deserve all the criticism they get and in other's they deserve every ounce of it ..

That's exactly what my comment means HadesR, lol...

But I getcha.

Oh yeah I know .. Was just agreeing with you .. There will always be those who think Dev's of any game are Saint's who can do no wrong, and there will always be those who think they are evil incarnate ...

It's somewhere in between

90% of players in any game never read the forums. 90% of those that do are driven here by something that annoys the **** out of them in the game. People here to pat SOE on the back for a job well done are insignificant and redundant. SOE can see how many people are happy by how many people stay subbed and keep buying SC. Game forums aren't for posting love letters, and all devs are aware of this.

Of course I'm enjoying the game. But compared to other games I play, PS2 causes a lot more frustration too. There are some really great moments about PS2 that no other game has. And there are some really bad moments I have to deal with to get those great moments. Sometimes I almost believe it's worth it. Other times I'm so frustrated I want to break something. Or, preferably, someone.

Customers of video games might be more impatient than others, but every costomer can expect a product that works properly. PS2 doesnt. I spent 150+ $ in PS2, more than in any other game. I expected a finished product, instead i have to deal with bugs, lag and performance problems every single play session. Some of the bugs are 6 or more months old! For example: mines and medkits not working, vehicle ejection seat, etc. Its like playing a beta.

SOE is just expert at making people mad and frustrated. They make many mistakes, like:

• introducing serious bugs with every major patch
• messing up balance with extreme or unnecessary nerfs/buffs
• reducing game peformance over time
• making fights totally meaningless by removing the little meta PS2 had (resource consolidation, removal of base resources, simplification of alerts)
• delaying very important conent updates, like resource collection, intercontinental lattice and meaning for fights in general (make every base valuable)

Also, it seems they have also downgraded the servers because the is much more lag than back in May 2013 when i subscribed. They even reduced the number of players per continent in OMFG, but there is still more lag.



All this is not some reasonless whining ... Even devs have admitted there are problems. Regarding bugs/performance: From Smedly (boss of SOE):

"Here are my top 4 ps2 issues - server lag, fps drops, obvious memory leak and ctd"

Regarding content: Higby (game designer) knows that fights are meaningless and he wants to change that.



PS2 is a unique game and it can be really fun, but it could also be a lot better. Thers is actually hope now that it will get better. Smedly posted this:

"The team has been asked to stand down on adding anything new until we fix the list I mentioned and focus down a lot of bugs."

And Higby has some really good ideas how to add meaning and strategy to fights. (He talked about it in one of the last Higby pls streams.)