[Vehicle] Attention Valkers! What do you think of the recent Stealth Changes?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Insignus, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Insignus

    This thread is meant to solicit the opinions of Folks that Fly Valk about the recent stealth changes. I'll explain the changes, then outline what I think is the distillation of three separate stances on the issue.

    After reading them, feel free to comment and add your own, or express your support for one or more of them. If you happen to know a Valker, make sure you message them and get them into this thread, as I want a diverse range of opinions from as many Valkers as possible.

    If you wish to state your opinions about the Stealth Changes in regards to aircraft that are not the Valk, I encourage you to do so in another thread, where they can more effectively be heard by the broader air community.

    Stealth Changes

    The basic gist is that Vehicle Stealth on aircraft no longer completely blocks engagement radar. Instead, it provides a rank based reduction to the effective range. Remember that Engagement Radars are in-built on ESFs, and are an optional upgrade on Skyguards.

    So, inbuilt ER has a 600m range. The reductions for regular aircraft max out at 400m. Meaning that at max rank of stealth, an ESF will see your ESF/Lib/Gal on their HUD at 200m.

    The Valkyrie has an 50m additional reduction, so that at max rank, a Valkyrie will be seen by an ESF at 150m.

    Stealth, the ability to hide, lose, or simply avoid ESFs in large fights, has long been a staple of the flight style and defense capabilities of the Valkyrie, even before engagement radars became default on the ESF.
    While the Stealth Changes will likely cause a major re-evaluation and shake-up of the air game in general, they will be especially hard hitting for the Valk. The devs acknowledged this when they graciously granted the 50m concession after the community made its voice heard.

    The question for y'all is: What should our stance be going forward? What do you think? I encourage you to log-on, play with the changes for a few days if you haven’t formed an opinion, and then make your decision. I’ll be steadily collecting opinions and thoughts from this thread for a good bit.

    Position 1: Acceptance


    There is a line of thinking that these changes are likely here to stay, and that we should be gracious and grateful for what concession we received. Sort of a "Quit while we're ahead" and not create ill-will by being perceived by the developers and the rest of the air community as standing out and complaining.

    Position 2: Additional Concession


    Another line of thought is that while the 50m concession is important, it still provides an entire 150m of visibility to the ESF, an aircraft that is designed to intercept and destroy aircraft, and that while we did receive a minor (5 point) boost against noseguns, 50m is insufficient, and we should instead campaign for a reduction of 100 or even 150m, which would make Valkyries visible to ESFs at 100m and 50m, respectively.

    A counter-argument to this is that it may be construed as demanding special treatment, and even as ungrateful for the response our previous feedback did receive.

    Position 3: Negation


    The final position is for the Valkyrie to retain the previous state of complete ER negation, in which it would never be visible to ER at any distance. This position is a bit more complex than the previous ones, so it'll need more explanation.

    Arguments for Negation include the following:

    1) The cert line has already been forked into a Valk-Specific line under the current implementation, and that negation can be achieved by coding the reduction value to 600m

    2) Due to the Stealth Changes, the opportunity exists for the creation of an exclusive niche for the Valkyrie - as the only truly stealth aircraft in the game. This niche could be created without having to resort to perennially suggested mechanics such as cloaking fields, instead, by simply changing by one value.

    3) There is also an argument that the ability to completely lose, dodge, and hide from ESFs - which will always be faster and more maneuverable than the Valk - is vital to the survivability of the airframe
    and is also incredibly fun and rewarding, and that the ability to off-put ESFs by disappearing completely from their Line of Sight during close engagements is an important positional advantage in an aircraft that requires a pilot and a gunner to be truly effective vs. ESFs.

    Without negation, the ESF can reverse maneuver fairly constantly to maintain sight on the Valk based not on a studious tracking and experience of the ESF pilot, but the hud marker of the ER, as the ER will generally indicate where it will be next. This reduces the skill floor for engaging and defeating Valks beyond the reasonably low bar it is at now, while penalizing the pilot/gunner skill of the Valk.

    4) Historically, Stealth was considered the go to airframe even before engagement radars became in-built on the ESF, which would reflect a long running validity of the situation previously described in 3)

    Arguments against Negation:

    1) That by adopting this into a niche mechanic for the Valk, it will become yet another stumbling block for advocating for more powerful weapons and other balance changes, similar to how Rumble Seat Repairs were treated pre-CAI.

    2) If the intent of the Stealth Changes is to assist new players, who now won’t be able to track and engage Valks with their ESFs. A counter-argument to this is that perhaps having an aircraft capable of being invisible to roaming ESF squadrons would be ideal for newer pilots to learn and train on instead.

    3) The other intent of the Stealth Change may have been to promote the usage of Composite Armor, and that reverting to negation would effectively doom its usage. The counter-argument to this is that composite armor has not always been viewed as terribly usable, whether pre or post CAI.

    4) ER is also used by skyguards, and as a transport, this would create a situation in which skyguards would feel disadvantaged by being un-able to intercept Valk drops on points. The counter-argument to this is that a good portion of Valk drops are pop-overs which use terrain to negate AA coverage in the first place, and that even under the current situation, 150m does not provide an abundance of reaction time to the Skyguard.

    Conclusion

    Thanks for exploring these options and making your voices heard. Feel free to add your own suggestions or comments, but if you support one of these positions, please make it known, and remember to bring in anyone that you know who uses the Valk.
    • Up x 1
  2. LordKrelas

    If I may, I forgot about the Valk's having to deal with ESFs with their built-in radars.

    Perhaps ensure Valks, due to their nature, be given a little ESF-Radar Specific counter-measure added on if nothing else.
    Which would provide Valks with that seat on the "Insertion Aircraft" when you are going for stealth, rather than bulk (galaxy)
    So that while ESFs, might have trouble stalking Valks with free radar, local Skyguards could possibly detect them if they got too close.




    -- Also, as usual, damn long, damn detailed, damn nice post.
  3. Tankalishious

    The stealth nerf is, next to the Dalton vs esf/libs nerf the stupidest thing I've seen in this game regarding vehicles.
    Free engagement radar was given for two reasons.
    1. Few used it
    2. Given to help new pilots detect incomming enemy aircraft, FREE MAXED ENGAGEMENT RADAR.

    The hard counter to the engagement radar was stealth.
    Now stealth got nerfed.
    So, people threw 2000 certs into an ability and slot to hard counter a FREE ability removed from a slot and put on an ESF chassis as stock, freeing up a slot for other abilities.

    So, if stealth is to be nerfed like this, Engagement radar should be removed from chassis and put back as an ability you have to slot and spec into.
    • Up x 1
  4. Insignus

    That is perhaps one option. But what would you support doing for the Valk & stealth, specifically?