Attention All Forum Users: Bringing Order to the PlanetSide 2 Forums

It's a conspiracy... They are the TR! THATS WH- *crack*.

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The problem is that to get a lot of feed back, you need people to know where they can go to get their feedback seen.

Many go to a large thread because to us, it seems like the more post something gets the more likely it is to get seen.

If when you are going through the different smaller suggestions, some SOE rep would say something to the effect of we see your suggestion, thank you.
We knew you were reading what we had to say on the member benefits forum, because you would say something back. Until a Dev or someone else post a reply, we don't know if only other users have seen our post.

One way for us to do that would be to have somewhere on forum where there is a page for that specifically.
Currently our options for something like this falls into
Reply to a patch
Vehicle discussion
Class Discussion
Ideas and suggestions
or game play discussion

Those are all broad topics that lead us to create broad post.

If I have a suggestion for a new prowler gun, do I go to Vehicle or Ideas and suggestions.
If there was under Ideas and Suggestions separate it into Ideas and suggestions --> vehicle/ weapons/ classes/
Or have that same menu you currently have, but for each faction.

The best example I see is that it has partially been done for classes, there are 6 sub-forums.

This game is Private Property of SOE... they can do what ever, when ever, and however they please.

The Concept of "The Freedom of Speech" Only applies to the right to form an assembly to voice your opinions about "Government" or to share your ideas over some form of "Public Media" about "Government" without persecution by that "Government"... Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to a Private Company or assets owned by said company. Only if that company has granted you the "privilege", as per some private agreement, are you owed the right to be a troll, which SOE has not done. SOE has granted you the right to share your ideas "in a productive and respectful manner" in a healthy means of improving the game and the community as a whole. There is nothing political about it.

Further more, when someone scolds you because you troll them online about some personal issue *such as harassing someone unjustly about their personal lifestyle choices*... Freedom of Speech doesn't apply there either unless the person is a member of "Government" and those choices could result in the loss of integrity of said "Government Official".

Please don't bring up political crap in a forum about a video game... it pisses people off when you misuse your uneducated opinions about your rights. I assure you that SOE is being more then generous letting you help in their game design process. The very act of them preventing trolls like you from ruining the forums is no different then when you wash your laundry. Such an act helps to preserve outward appearance so that you attract the "right sort" of individuals helping to maintain a respectable image.

You should learn more about what your rights are before trolling a Private Asset of a Private Company.

With Freedom comes great responsibility

-Ddolbok-

You don't seem to understand them much yourself... I recommend you consult with a layer, in all seriousness, and figure out what rights you actually do have in relations to online games, especially if you've spent any amount of money on them. Believe it or not, SOE cannot do whatever the hell they please, with regards to human rights, and you do have the privilege of defending those rights, if you'd bother to step up to the plate.

Im Ex Military... Think i did "bother to step up to the plate".

SOE isn't breaking any Laws by saying on their Private forum you will be held accountable for Trolling or making posts that are nonconstructive... and yes, i stand by what i said about the Freedom of Speech bullhocky that other guy brought up because it has no bearing here.

Your only right within a private forum is within the value of the administrator that gave you the privilege of involvement... this is within the boundaries of the RULES indicated in the TOS.
Its the same as telling a buggar to get off your lawn because its private property... he cant reply to you and say... "Its a Free Country!?" and think that is going to apply.

You have the right to talk on the forum and make recommendations in an effort to improve the game in a constructive way ONLY because SOE is willing to including you in that process... but in order to facilitate that desire on their part, SOE wishes to streamline the forums to exclude bothersome and nonconstructive comments like:

“Sounds like communism and suppression of freedom of speech to me.”


to stay on topic... how about you view the Title of this post and offer advice to SOE rather then me. Just be Tactful and Constructive while you're at it and not like that guy.

Also in the end you cant just leap from the complexities of "Freedom of speech" to this "SOE cannot do whatever the hell they please, with regards to human rights"... Again, its a bit of a leap, and really inappropriate for the topic of this discussion. SOE is a law Abiding company filled with good law abiding people who value the same lifestyle that you share. So Please! Please! Stay on Freaking topic! Its annoying talking with you about such stupid things unrelated to the issue being discussed.

Except that we pay for playing the game.. this changes a lot.

Freedom of speech? In a F2P games forum owned and operated by a corporation?

Internet lawyering at its 14-year-old or misguided-50-year-old best.

hahaha I always love it when a person rants freedom of speech on a forum, as if they didn't click "I agree" to an terms or that they some how think the site is a public domain. Well put Flap

I'm sorry if I offended you by that, but serving in the military and engaging in a legal battle are not one & the same.

This isn't a private forum, everyone and anyone is free to sign up to, comment, and discuss any topic within, making it a public forum. There are other, more popular public forums, but the fact that this one is less often people's go to choice doesn't make this any less of a public venture. SOE is, in fact, engaging the public here.

What you don't understand, is that those ToS are written up to apply to a broad demographic (I hope you don't at least, otherwise I don't know why we're debating the point). The ToS include the phrase "where applicable", because not all regulations apply to everyone equally, and even if it doesn't include that clause, it doesn't make those terms any more legally binding than legally allowed. It pays to know what regulations apply to you, and this is part of why I read over ToSs.

I've quoted the second part separately because I'd like to make it apparent how vastly different private property is to public space. If this were within their internal network, and we had hacked into their systems and started making posts within those networks, then your statement would apply, but this simply is not private, restricted space.

I understand, and agree with you there, SOE has every right to filter and remove unconstructive posts. The concern I have is when a company starts applying that filter too broadly. Some people are angry, they need to vent, and hidden within all that venting is a valid suggestion, or observation. Taking you're quoted example, someone is expressing concern about suppression, and comparing it to communism. While I agree that this is extreme, it gets the point across; "I don't want you to brush me off when I tell you you've ****** up, and I don't want to have to be overly 'proffesional' about it either, I want to be blunt".

No, sorry, you decided to join the conversation, I took an interest in the conversation, and your stated points offered a great position to dive into it from, as I feel like I'm in a good position to comment on your particular standpoint.

I'm not saying that they aren't. what I am saying is that your statement "SOE can do whatever the hell they want in their own private forum" is just wrong. They can't. If you work for a company that does this, contact a lawyer, and again, I'm serious on that. SOE has a right to restrict what their employees can say publicly, but they can't restrict how they co-operate. They can set up a chain of command, they can request that everyone try to maintain a professional atmosphere, even provide direction on how to co-operate efficiently, but human rights still apply behind those closed doors; Workers are not prisoners, and they are legally allowed to be offensive so long as no one takes it as harassment, and their discussions don't jeopardize the business.

We all have our own little ways of trying to get our points across, some are more efficient than others, and we all want to be able to contribute, as requested by SOE, to the development of this game. We don't want to be restricted so much that we no longer feel comfortable contributing. Removing trolling is fine, so long as they aren't removing valuable discussion and debate.

Well, whatever they are doing, it is working. I actually kind of like coming to the PS2 forums again.

I know.

I used to get off, feeling sick to my stomach and thinking "Why oh why do I spend so much time there?"

Now it hurts less!

SOE can literally do whatever they want on these forums, barring extreme instances (example, threatening the President or blatant libel).

As far as SOE employees go, they also have the right to control how their employees interact with their customers. California is an at-will state--they can't lock their employees in a basement for saying something they don't like, but they can fire them, or at the very least moderate their posts.


Not reading the TOS isn't an excuse for being completely ignorant of them. And no, this isn't the type of situation where something in the document is so outlandish and egregious that it would override the agreement. You agreed to abide by the forum rules when you made an account.

The communism comment gets the point across that the OP doesn't know what communism is.

While I get your point, this isn't a public space in the way that the law references. This is a forum that is owned and operated by a private entity. We (and by that I mean both SOE and the players) derive the most benefit if the forum is as open as possible, and we work to make that happen for everyone.

We aren't removing the valuable discussion and debate, the individuals who chose to break the rules are. It really sucks from our perspective, and we wish we didn't have to do it. Unfortunately some folks persist in not wanting their opinions to be heard. I don't go into a fine dining restaurant with no shirt on and complain that they won't seat me, I know the rules. The rules here are posted and enforced. This is explicitly to provide the best forum for the players to voice their opinions. Profanity, personal attacks, and general nastiness just mean that less people participate and those that do are more often trying to be internet funny rather than actually responding to what their fellow players are saying.

Well spoken, but as you stated, those individuals wouldn't be found within a fancy restaurant either; rules are posted at the door, strictly enforced, and violators are thrown out. Their customers come in expecting nothing but the best service. This isn't something that's exclusive to fancy restaurants; Bars will do the same to rowdy customers, because most of their customers just want to have a good time. They're both social institutions with a targeted demographic; people can come back when they're in a better way, and repeat offenders are eventually barred from the premise.

There's a key Similarity here that I am trying to address, these are both a public forum of sorts.

A good example of a forum we all know and many of us love, is Reddit. On the right hand side bar, rules for the specific forum you are in are clearly posted for all to see, just like those little signs you see on mall windows, clearly indicating what is prohibited within their premise. They don't take up an entire 1250 words, they are almost as brief and to the point as a "no dogs allowed" sign. They're done that way because they give people a good frame of reference, something people don't have here, there isn't even a permanent main page link to the guidelines.

The internet is comparable to a city; people grow and explore it's inner workings, discover new tastes, sounds, music, stores, meet new people, start relationships, and in the case of this establishment, try to come together collaboratively... En Mass.

I work with a team of 20 to 30 people, which drops down to 2 or 4 handling everything, at night. The differences in opinions and methods during prime time are so vast that they're divided into different work groups, or sub forums, some of which never interact with each other beyond a curious "what do you guys do?".

We have a fair amount of sub forums here, they come with unique expectations and social groupings. There are times when they die down enough that people from one section of this collaboration mall will peer into another window, listen in a bit and go "oh, that's interesting, I actually think it'd be neat if things worked like this", without realizing that somewhere in the 15 pages of records they'd have to read over before joining in on the conversation, the point has already been discussed, and moved past, or that suggesting something new is inappropriate.

Are they trolling? not necessarily, but people still get upset, fully expecting them to read over those 15 pages of posts, when they themselves haven't read over the 1250 word document they signed on to.

I think that, instantly accusing people of trolling, or just not understanding things, is obtuse, as is punishing people for crimes they likely don't feel they've committed, and leaving them in the dark on a conversation they'd of liked to participate in.

It would be prudent if we made intelligent discussion a rule of thumb, that is, we all took the time to link back to important parts of the conversation, instead of getting offended because someone else isn't as informed as we are. It gives people incentive to dig through a particular section of the discussion, form an opinion, and ask more questions to help them catch up and contribute to the actual discussion at hand. We could even work the up-votes into this, explaining that up-votes are used to mark important points in a conversation, and offering a "rundown" link on a thread that would list off these important posts, so people can catch up without digging through 10000 or more words first, and would help moderators and admins for the same reason.

What I don't want to see, is SOE getting a bad rap because people are having a hard time collaborating. The sub forums are a good first step, but, no one has any personal responsibility, we don't work for our sub forums or even our own threads. We get heated misinterpretations of intent all the time, because people move everywhere. It's hard to talk without inflections, we're all monotone here, but it could be easier if we all took it upon ourselves to initially assume there is no malice meant by a comment.

I feel like we should all put forward an effort to at least educate someone before reporting them. It would also go a long way to developing understanding if, once reported, the "deleted" comment had a note clearly defining why it was deleted, what rules it violated, and a link back to the forum guidelines. I know, it ends up feeling like a waste of time, but it's a small level of transparency that protects you from backlash, and helps people understand what is considered stepping out of line; what processes they're expected to conform to. It also gives people a quick way to dispute something, properly, if they feel they've been wrongfully accused of something, which sounds like a hastle, but it lets people know that you're willing to work with them, instead of implying that it's a one way street.

Are you guys implementing these policy changes on Redit as well?

Can we get back to making suggestions instead of ranting about your perceived rights in regards to SOE policing their property?

I made a suggestion a while back that recommended a Que for Posts that show a ticket number much like a Support Ticket... that is updated regularly allowing the OPs that make Posts to know their Ideas are Scheduled to be considered and commented on at some point... it would greatly alleviate stress on the community and the Devs that read the posts allowing them to channel resources where it counts.

Not to mention the second part of my post offered that scheduled posts be listed for the community to view so they know which ones are in that week's lineup...

Premium member Posts should go to the top... they have an invested interest in the game and forum quality and should be rewarded top seat for their commitment... second, for players that buy items with Station Cash... after a number amount of items purchase they gain access to the second spot in the Que after Premiums... then to be fare F2P who haven't spent any Station Cash *Or Game Time Cards* on the game should still get a chance to be heard but their posts should go in 3rd place *but should be rated by the date of posting... that way new posts by Premiums cant continually push F2p farther back on the discussions.

Again, as iterated previously, such a system would be automated and allow the community a fare shot at the limelight, while removing too much pressure on the Devs allowing them to be more focused and less worried about trying to read everything.

This System should be available and view able by the community at all times... even if you already have a similar system in place... so that the community can clearly see you are listening to them...

I know you Listen but not everyone has the same loyalty or faith without visual ques...

A Second System should be made availible for Comments... This one allows the proper Rating of Comments by the community to be viewed by the Devs one one of two ways...

Ratings by Quality: Such as your comment was super helpful or offered valuable insight that the community values

Ratings by Ethical Standard: This functions similarly to the Flagging system for inappropriate messages...

For Ratings of Quality, when you add a Like *Thumbs Up* to a comment or Post you get a questionnaire that allows you to check or highlight the part you approved of most and provide a rating for said comment based on topic relevancy and how much you "Feel" it deserves Dev attention... this allows the best comments to filter to the top getting front seat and ultimately get added to the Que mentioned previously for Posts in regards to the Topics of the Week discussions.

For Ratings of Ethical Standard: When a Post receives a dislike or *Thumbs Down* after a particular amount of them, a Mod is sent to view the comment to verify its not breaking TOS and that it is On Topic with the Post Heading and the Discussion as a whole. If the comment is breaking TOS it is removed and the User that made the comment is asked to edit it in effort to correct the violation listed before the Mod will re-post it.

In the event of a misuse of the dislike system occurs like it does on Youtube *some people just dislike everything cause they are just that kind of person* or in a case where a Comment is competing with someone else and so that person dislikes the competition... The Mod will then be able to view that and take appropriate steps.

Mods however don't comment openly with the community about the post or the comment or to the individual that made the comment or post to prevent trolls from getting rewarded for being who they are.

Hopefully this system will prevent unnecessary Banning for minor violations and promote quality to rise to the top. While granting comments the chance to be recognized for their merit.

Finally a Reward system should be in place that promotes good Posts and Good Comments. These rewards can be based on the Number of Posts or comments... but also by the quality of Posts and Comments... The Rewards should be something that is tangible within the game like new Titles or wearable Badges or Ribbons... Also Special Lottery Access to a Drawing allowing a special Item to be gifted by SOE to 1 individual each month for achieving some high standard.

Such a Reward system would encourage more interactivity with the Forums by the Community of both the Test Server & the Live Servers and would give cause for a handful of players to puff out their chest a bit in pride that they got notoriety for their use of words.

The System could also open a whole new range of marketing options and details to the game that both members and SOE couldn't help but enjoy.

On this Note... See you on the Battlefield... After you read your PS2 Newspaper.

When someone has a forum post removed they should receive notification including which rule was violated. We don't call people out publicly, so it takes place privately. Other players calling them out publicly usually leads to non-productive conversation, no one likes getting told they are in the wrong. If they want further clarification (or feel that it was done in error) they should email us at forum-admin@soe.sony.com. We look into it, and can get into a more in depth discussion through email. The forum guidelines are found here (at the top of the most general forum section).

Reddit is 3rd party site, and is administered by fans not us. The forums the most important area for customer feedback and the overall focus of our most intense communication efforts.

Read your suggestions, and they are interesting. There are a number of questions I would ask about them if we were to decide to move in that direction, there are gameable elements in them that would have to be addressed. Instead of approaching this from a systems and engineering standpoint at this time though, we'll continue to focus on a more humanistic approach with folks like Luperza and myself reading the forums and responding (or requesting dev responses as appropriate) along with the dev team participating as well.