Assessment of Balance Status

I must admit that almost everything in your second paragraph is the exact opposite of my 600 hours on Woodman NC. Granted the weapons did get balanced and I've yet to check out where NC stand on infantry fighting weapons but as for teamwork and attitude we are pretty lacking.

I think The game is really well balanced now with only small adjustments being needed and maybe some bigger ones on air vehicles as depending on the population of a fight can be overpowered kill houses or absolutely useless.

I agree with your observations regarding the NC, and with your comments on the Striker. I'll take it up a notch or two and say it needs none of what you suggest; Either allow it to Dumb-Fire(But do we need a Mini-Fracture?) or to Lock on many targets at once, then increase Dmg of each rocket a bit and stop it from firing at the same target within a certain limit. The latter option will make it fun and actually different. So would alternatives such as allowing to Lock infantry or MAX, with more or less the same limitation as above.

Things need to be different, fun to use, not just have different numbers here and there.

+ The option to load up all the rockets and fire them at once would also be interesting, which would of course have to be balanced in terms of Lock speed ETC.

Good reply. I forgot to mention something that I will mention now. The attitude of players will definitely vary from server to server. I only mentioned it to offer kudos to the Waterson NC on maintaining a good spirit within the game. As far as the balance, I completely agree with you. It is much better than it was and is a close call.

I like the idea. As is would probably be a bit OP. You've provided some decent clay, it just needs to be shaped a bit. Infantry and Max lock would become unpopular very quick, but multiple locks, dumb-fire option, and one-shot salvo (like the RF:G Rocket Launcher) are neat ideas. I like the multi-lock the best, but as a secondary firemode. I cannot agree to increased damage though, seeing as it currently does a total of 2000 Dmg per 5 rounds. If anything, a light damage nerf in exchange for a lock-on buff would be acceptable in my book.

Too bad your assessment of NC weapons is the exact opposite of reality.

A year of continuous statistics showed NC to be underperforming in pretty much every infantry weapon class.

Feel free to show us some evidence of your NC exploits. Like the name of the toon or a link to the profile.

The Dmg buff would be required as the Striker wouldn't be able to fire twice against the same target fast enough, an exchange for being able to Multi-Lock. Didn't I mention that?

About what you said, I don't think it needs any toning down or up in order to tone down or up some other Stat, it needs to be unique. Which is also why I did not suggest what I did as a "2ndary Mode" but as its only function. I could accept a combination of unique elements the user could switch to, but none of the two "Modes" should be what we have now. It's just too generic to keep.

Guess it's down to perspective .. After playing NC since beta and making a TR alt I found the weapons to be extremely easy to use .. Was " WTF people complain about the Carv ? It's a beast "

Only down side was every single TR LMG looks the same

If anything changed with the last update .. Then it was bringing more weapons into balance and on par with each other across the three factions ..

I would accept that my perception of the NC currently being superior, if only slightly at that, may in fact be caused by the NC having been brought up to par- If I could accept that they performed terribly earlier... Which they did not. Their equipment was not problematic, their weakness was their players. Sorry to say that but after having tried their weapons both Pre- and Post- PU, in and out of the VR, I have to say it feels like SOE went a bit too far in their efforts to improve NC, quite possibly based on what they read here. And we all know what we all read here, which prior to the most recent PU happened to include way much QQ from NCs. Did you even notice what happened when KOTV jumped on the NC(And yet again I'll say it, they did NOT jump on the TR for a reason or two.. Heh..)? Suddenly the NC were a threat and it wasn't because of sheer numbers and Zerging, as not many actually made the move, or at least not at once. They're still there and as far as population balance goes this will make things even worse for the TR on my Server... As if population control wasn't problematic(Forgive the term, it just fits the situation and I don't often bother being politically correct).

Since we're talking about QQ, let me add that right now the TR seem to be the most generic, overly simplified, least interesting and unique Faction. And the feeling I have playing TR after the latest PU is that all our equipment could be described as "Average". For every barely felt, unintuitive advantage we have in our arms and armour, is countered by an equally unintuitive disadvantage, leaving us right in the middle in many things. I'm not saying "TR SuX SOE PLZ BUFF", I'm saying MAKE US INTERESTING TO PLAY PLZ K?

HadesR indeed our stuffz are too generic even visually. Boring even.

Is it that or is it more that the others were brought down to balance ? So your weapons do feel worse than before because they are worse than before, rather than NC's being better ?

Hades you lost me there. Short version; I think SOE improved NC a bit more than they should have. TR stuff average. Art is bad too. Vanguard Shield OP. SOE pl0x make TR interesting.

End.

I'm sorry you don't feel TR'ish, maybe that is because there was a balance pass and your faction took a few hits on the nose, because all of the data and player experience prior to that balance pass showed your faction was in need of being toned down. As for the Striker it is still a good weapon. However, now it is much more situational just like the Phoenix and Lancer, sorry but no longer will you have the "One rocket launcher to rule them all" be grateful your faction had 6 months to cert farm with it and cert farm they did as is evident in the kill differentials between the ESF's and Liberators, which where able to operate in the skies above the VS and NC with out fear of other ESF or as go against another AA rocket launcher half as effective as the Striker.

I think the balance feels much better between the faction and in a few months once we have had a chance to look at the numbers, then we can see if tweaks need to be made.

Disagree completely about NC having an edge after the patch, I have 3 NC (Since beta) as well as a TR and VS. Being less certed than any of the others I still consistently have a higher K/D with the TR character even after the patch ( Referring to play session K/D, Not overall total).

NC are definitely in a better spot than they were before the patch and certain weapons are performing very well compared to how they were prior but overall I think it's more our increased numbers on most servers are giving people the impression that NC are suddenly OP. Considering that some TR and VS weapons got taken down a peg and 4th faction jumping to the NC it's not really surprising but from a guy whose been playing NC since beta it feels like we're finally getting a level playing field again. I could be wrong and it's possible we do have a slight advantage but it's only slight and given the faction balance history of this game it's certainly our turn.

As far as the vanguard shield goes, I think most of the people complaining don't actually understand how it works. Max rank with 1800 certs in it gives you 8 seconds of shield with a 45 second cool down, After those 8 seconds we go back to being the worst tank on the field. Also keep in mind it doesn't protect the rear of the tank from taking damage just the front/top and sides, Most of the time I see it used more as a panic button to get to safety. Where as TR get huge reload and projectile speed for the same cert cost in anchored mode and the effing mag can strafe side to side without any cert investment at all though I'll grant you magburn is pretty lame.

Couldn't agree more about the striker, It's quite lackluster but all rocket launchers seem to be at the moment. While the phoenix is fun to use it isn't very effective against vehicles unless you have a squad of them focus firing on targets, Though it is good for taking out engineer turrets. The lancer has similar issues where it's only effective in groups focusing their fire but it has the advantage of being a nice rocket sniper rifle for killing maxes. Overall I think all the rocket launchers could do with some looking into and I'd rather not focus on the problems with just one of them.

Recent performance metrics disagree with your perceptions.

NC are more balanced but from what I have seen from Merli0n (who should be making a post with these soon) NC are still lagging behind in carbines, just now it is only by a little instead of a lot. TR do not really have "high" performing LMGs, but then again they also do not have "low" performing LMGs so that overall there is some balance. VS still have the best LMGs, just not by as large a margin as they did before the patch.

TLDR: No offense, but there is no support for your opinion in the most current objective performance metrics.

Hopefully Merli0n will post the figures sooner rather than later. I have been given a sneak peak and there is no evidence that the changes to NW or slight buffs to ACX-11 resulted in some kind of NC OP advantage. In fact, it appears that NC is still last in carbines, just not by so great a margin. Likewise, VS is still in the lead with LMGs just not by the same margin.

Vaguard is hardly OP when it results in the lowest score, fewest infantry kills, fewest vehicle kills, and has the shortest lifespan. Vanguard with shield can be very tough and good where it is intended to be good but that hardly makes it OP.

Cheers.

no sense at all contributing when disagreement of your opinion is met with "WHY U TROL I REPURT YUO" when someone says such.

arguments are moot in practice when someone doesnt even make an argument to begin with. I.E.: this NC weapons 'buff' that.....never happened. the TR and VS got toned down, and thats how nerfs work. thats not an NC buff, thats TR and VS equipment being brought back in line. and honestly, there are a ways to go still

Although I understand where you're coming from, keep in mind that statistics are not very accurate. It is possible that the groups from which the statistics were taken were below average. Unless the statistics are universal data collected (e.g. EVERY vanguard kill, which I doubt because that's a lot of data to track), the statistics are only as accurate as the attempt collect the average. As far as weapon stats (core, integer mechanics), applying the human factor certainly can make these numbers different in play than theory. Thanks for the info.

Constructive comments are not reported. I have no problem with criticism or disagreement. If it is delivered and a mature and appropriate manner, than it does not violate the CoC.
If you say that the NC was not buffed, I have nothing to argue that. I may have had the facts wrong. My point remains that I feel the point of median was passed. I am entitled to my opinion and I do not expect SOE to look at my thread and say "Fix the game! TR says it's broken!" No, instead this serves as a vote. Part of the point of these forums is to gauge player reactions to changes to try to find a point where everyone is happy. They are not here to promote one faction or suppress another. They are here to deliver a product so that they can stay in business.
If no one gave feedback, the game would be as it was at release, and by now would be stale and dead. I don't understand how this is such an alien concept to those who use the forums.

When I make a thread like this, your job is not to say "You're wrong!" It's to say "Here's some logic to change your mind." This is the difference between argument and debate. You should be trying to change my point of view to match yours through reason and facts, not silly pictures, poor grammar, and rude comments.

I have to disagree with you opinion of the NC. NC guns did not get much of a change with the last balance patch and honestly neither did the TR or VS. All LMGs were hit with the CoF change but NC LMGs already had ridiculous CoF anyway.

Other than that the only other things affected was the CQC weapons and it was changed on all factions if they had an advanced laser and .75 movement modifier. (WIth the only NC weapons getting a buff was the GD7F(slight) and 4 more rounds on the ACX and Reaper)

The reason NC now feel better than the other factions is because of the Nanoweave change. NC was the faction hurt the most by the way Nanoweave used to be. Now our guns can actually put out a lot of damage especially with the way headshots work on Nanoweave.

Why did Nanoweave help NC so much. Well it helped us in two ways.
#1 Less people now use Nanoweave which makes our TTK a lot faster because we have to hit 1 less bullet than before(2 less with max Nanoweave) which makes our slower fire rate guns much better. This change made using the slower but harder hitting weapons on every faction more rewarding and this is why you have seen longer range weapons become more utlized and are seeing less CQC weapons in general. Is the TAR, Jaguar, Serpent, HV-45, Carnage AR, GD7F, etc worse weapons than before, nope, but other weapons have become better because of it. This also helped NC because our weapons have always been really good at range compared to the other factions.

#2 Headshots. Because the way NC recoil works and overall how our guns preformed with the old Nanoweave, Headshots was a must in most engagements if you did not have CQC weapons. With our recoil pattern being mostly vertical it allowed us to point at the chest and the recoil would move to their head allowing us 1 or 2 headshots. Now with the change to Nanoweave not working on Headshots, NC just do what they always have done which now is a lot more rewarding.


Because of the patch most of the VS and TR were not really Headshot players which is what Nanoweave rewards now. Because of this, and the NC recoil which helps get headshots, NC feels a lot easier than they did before because we are now rewarded for our play style instead of being rewarded for faster RoF like nanoweave previously did.


Also on the Striker and the Vanguard shield. They both do need slight changes. The Striker in this form is a joke. It is still strong if you land all the shots but its pretty much impossible to land all the shots. It will be tough to make the striker good enough without making it OP again(were you couldn't even fly in TR airspace because of the blasted thing). On the Vanguard shield it does also need a tweak. However remember that the Vanguard even with the shield is the lowest scoring and killing tank in the game. So even if with the shield makes it OP in 1v1 it does not make the Vanguard perform better than the other tanks in other categories and it is only a defensive ability unlike anchor.(Magburn can hectically be consider both depending on how you use it but I will call it an Defensive ability).

Depending on what site that made the statistics it was probably from launch and it would be EVERY vanguard kill (on an average per minute or something) because the API tracks that.(Because it tracks Time in Vehicle and kills in vehicle(also vehicle kills))

Also if you want to argue the skill level or Human factor the overall difference between empires would be be so slight that it would probably only effect the averages by a fraction of a point(think .001 or .01 to at most probably .05) which is not really that significant for stats purposes(in this situation)

However if the stats site did do it from launch than it would be dumb but if it was oracle of death or someone that showed the past week then it would be pretty accurate to the overall performance of the Vehicles in general. Which would mean that the Vanguard in a given time period would perform quite worse than the other tanks.

I saw the spreadsheet and do not remember the time period in which it was tanked(nor can I find that spread sheet again) but it showed a large difference in average kills, Vehicle kills, and Score per minute/hour of the tanks and the Vanguard was performing a lot worse in most categories.

However I would only use these stats as far as saying the Vanguard is performing on average worse since launch and would really like to see stats since PU02.

-Double Post-

^You have accomplished this^ Congratulations, the day is yours. I am utterly convinced that this is what role PU02 played if forming the current faction status. I will be referencing your post as a template for a proper response to a thread like this.

Do you see what he did there? He properly countered my argument facts and reason, and presented it in a manner that made sense, and was mature, informative, and most importantly, convincing. That is how you do it. Not by spitting facts and pride from a frothing maw lol.