I appreciate that. You'd be surprised how uncommon this mindset is. People can become incredibly hostile when their pet ideas are questioned too strongly. Not if the only ones around to hear it are in the respawn screen. Five was only an example, I'm merely assuming a small group larger than you would otherwise comfortably be able to kill with a Scout or SMG mag but large enough to kill with an LMG. Simply put if I can kill everyone in a position to do anything about me before they have time to react, the noise I make in doing so is inconsequential. The SAW is merely the easiest target, most other LMGs will kill faster. However, the high damage model means the first shot advantage an attacker has is substantial, ideal for infiltrators. Also you should never, ever, ever hip fire the SAW unless you...actually I can't think of a good reason to ever hipfire the SAW. Just don't. Think of the children. I think the issue here is that we are assuming different kinds of engagement here. I am assuming that the infiltrator is flanking a position with maybe 4-5 guys shooting out of windows, healing, repairing, etc. Essentially otherwise engaged and looking the other way, with no idea I am there until I am already shooting. Engagement distance is ~20-30m or closer if I can get it and is over as quickly as I can drop all the targets, ideally before they have a chance to realize that the gunfire coming from behind them is not friendly. They won't see my muzzle flash or tracers due to my positional advantage. On the other hand it seems as though you are assuming a more or less straight-up fight where the enemies know I am out there and have a relative idea of where I am. I am not suggesting any class should be able to fight 4-5 players in a straight-up firefight and win as long as the players in question have remembered to turn on their monitors. I'm not talking about in the long run, I'm talking about in individual firefights. An LMG in the hands of an infiltrator means they are capable of shooting, cloaking, relocating, and reengaging rapidly and unpredictably as long as they still have bullets in the magazine. Long-term sustainability is a separate matter and not an issue. You only need the cloak as long as it takes you to get behind hard cover. A rock or building makes you more invisible than any cloak. To put it into one sentence: other classes can't become invisible. If there's one thing I have taken away from the FPS community, it's that much stock is put into "skill" as long as that "skill" is two players facing each other at 20 paces with no outside interference. Anything that kills from long range (snipers, tanks, aircraft), in one shot (shotguns, snipers, C4, tanks), can't be killed with an assault rifle (tanks, aircraft, MAXs (practically)), or modifies the engagement in any way (Jetpacks, Carapace, Cloak, Overshield) is "cheap" and therefore whined about loudly until the Devs cave (worst case), the whiners abandon the game (not ideal) or the whiners learn how counterplay works and stop whining (rare, but best case). You can see this trend in almost any FPS community. To be honest if it ends up passing the PTS inspection Vets will probably be OK with it. Whether or not that would happen is anyone's guess, but if carbines got a try I guess there's no reason for LMGs not to. The main issue lies with the huge force multiplier represented by an infiltrator with any given weapon which means despite what the numbers say it may end up being overpowered in a realistic combat scenario. (e.g. in the hands of their average users an Auto-Scout is comparable or even superior to a Carbine across all distances, but when tested in the PTS they were found to be overpowered.) It's not as much as you might think. Even with bodyshots from one of the slowest TTK LMGs in the game, you have less than a second to react before you're looking at a spawn screen. An opponent needs to be only a little better than you are to kill you in a fair fight. In an ambush they may only need to be 75% as good, for example. Depending on where you sit on the skill curve this may cover a broader or narrower percentage of the players you encounter. I find that if I assume that my opponents are all at least as competent as me and that my teammates are the dumb ones, then play the game accordingly, I am rarely disappointed.