[Suggestion] Are you guys going to fix the NC maxes?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Destroyer0370, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Destroyer0370

    I went up head to head with a TR max last night and only did approximately 500 damage to it, in close range on death screen. He had two mini guns .I had two hacksaw or better call it now Dull saws. I hit all shots on him close range.

    The same thing happened long time ago against Vanu max and on death screen 500 approximately I did damage only.

    Just give us then vanu or Tr guns , because the shotguns right now are ****.

    Some regular Infantry shot guns can 1 shot kill, on all factions, but our NC max cannot.
    • Up x 1
  2. Demigan

    The death screen is blatantly false.

    That said, losing to a longer range, more sustained fire, faster reload, more accurate, less damage degradation, same DPS weapon in the one single short range your weapons are supposed to work on is a terrible and unbalanced thing. Ofcourse because people do not like specialization like shotguns and prefer only the engagement pattern of "normal" weapons they'll whine like female dogs until they get there way, wrongfully. The biggest flaw of the NC MAX wasn't it's performance, it was the fact that it's weapons are shotguns. Had they been short-range auto-canons people wouldn't have even noticed.
    • Up x 3
  3. adamts01

    I say give it some time, just for LOLs. It took 6 years of obscenely broken NC Maxes to get this nerf, so another 6 years of data for a slight buff sounds about fair.
    • Up x 1
  4. Gibber

    Sorry NC Maxes there will be no sympathy for no longer insta-gibbing everything
    • Up x 1
  5. OneShadowWarrior

    I actually hate NC maxes now, they could have just removed slugs and started there.

    As usual, overkill on the nerfs.
    • Up x 4
  6. Campagne

    I don't see why NC MAXes get so much hate given their TTK was a fraction of a second faster but the TR & VS MAXes are more or less accepted. Sure instant deaths are very frustrating to deal with but it's not like only NC MAXes were capable of that. Makes no sense to me.

    Regardless, I think the NC MAX needs to be fixed. Not re-buffed back to where it was or anything as obviously people don't want that, but enough to be usable again. The ZOE MAX is just as terrible, but there are two other ability slot options to use instead.

    It's like having an entire class or ES vehicle type completely worthless for a single faction only. A minor one for sure but there can be no exception. Just give 'em some nerf'd chainguns and call it a day, or buff up the AV weapons to be notably better than the TR or VS as to make the NC MAX AV-oriented instead of AI like the other two.
    • Up x 3
  7. LordKrelas

    Can we break VS or TR's only weapon options then? And then joke about leaving an entire class as an invalid.

    As even with ZOE, that didn't nearly disarm their entire MAX, they had other abilities, and their guns.
    For NC? The guns are barely functional. And the reaction is, "Leave them for 6 years"

    So even as a joke, That's absurdly in bad taste.
    No other faction, has had their only options rammed into a hole & left to rot.
    Not even when ZOE was stripped down: as it actually had options left.

    (Not to mention, how many things are actually broken for NC, IE NC is unable to use several pieces of equipment, on top of the MAX being reduced from "easily ******** to the enemy" to "You are inferior in every single way to the enemy".)
    • Up x 1
  8. adamts01

    NC is still plenty competitive. And everyone knows damn well those NC Max ****ter had it coming hard. What's absurd is that it took so long. Furthermore, the NC Max is closer to balanced now than it's ever been. A few of its shotgun options aren't too far off what the other factions have. And plenty of TR have even caught on to gorgons being a decent option because of their moving accuracy. Things aren't that bad at all over on the NC, just not stipid broken like they're used to.
  9. LordKrelas

    Ah yeah, so they should've basically not used half of their arsenal of close-range weapons, in close-range situations.
    I liked to imagine all the original ZOE users tried that notion, same with the rest.
    Yes, it took ages for the Max to be adjusted; But right now, It has worse stats in every ******* field.

    It has less range, It has less ammo, it has near equal damage or less, it has a longer reload-time.
    TR & VS, have dedicated AI weapons that aren't all subpar & short-ranged: They even can use the Gorgon on top.

    While it was easily ******** to face , it also was the most specialized weapon.
    Now, it's the most specialized weapon, that performs equal or less, to the General-pattern VS & TR guns.
    IE, it has no advantage, but every disadvantage.

    After all; Tell me where exactly NC's max right now shines equal or better than TR & VS?
    As they have more range than NC, faster reloads, larger magazines, and NC has what?
    We can't even use sticky-grenades right now, and we've had the worst ES weapons nearly 3 times in a row.
    And now our max, has only disadvantages no Benefits.

    Was a grand balance pass: Lost the alpha, and gain nothing for having the longest reload, smallest magazine, and shortest range.
    Like christ, it went from ********-focused where it won hard, to "In the perfect environment, this is performs equal or worse"
    When the gun only works in one environment, it works equal to a gun that works everywhere.

    It's specialized for short-range, For... Basically nothing.
    6 Guns, that are specialized for variations of short-range guns.. that have no alpha-strike over Long-ranged rapid-fire large-magazine weapons.
    And they already lost in every other stat:

    IE Can we just switch the damn guns for VS & TR guns already?
    Shotguns at this point, seem to be not worth the ********.
  10. adamts01

    It still has the best special ability. It's a touch worse in the dps department but it's the most defensive. And when all is said and done, Maxes are the most balanced they've ever been. NC just has the short end of the stick, buy a bit, after ridiculously dominating for half a decade. So yeah, suck it up and use gorgons or rockets.
  11. Scrundle

    "Just use a deci"

    The general advice given whenever a TR or NC player would complain about the hilariously overpowered state that VS maxes used to be in and were in for a good long while. No give or take, no acceptance that it was broken, simply "Just use a deci".
    The implication being that you simply weren't good enough.
    Funny how that is forgotten and now apparently it's the NC maxes that have ALWAYS been overpowered.
    Isn't it strange how that works.
    Isn't it strange how it's "Balanced" when it's in your favor and "Overpowered" when it isn't, you small minded little oiks.
    • Up x 1
  12. LaughingDead

    So basing on being petty and one ability that has been ridiculously buggy since Dx11, we have the worst max and it's fair because it was "dominating" before?

    Oh yea, **** all those new players that even try a max then. Oh the enemy has a max and you wanna help your team by being a max too? Ha, **** you for trying, here's the worst stock max in the game just for you.

    Nothing ever got done in the eye for an eye world. Dropping it and simply playing fair makes a better game. Maxes in their current form, are either making pushes or playing passive defense, NC maxes do the worst of either because their damage drops within breathing range; with less distance than most buildings in the entire game. But I suppose it's fair because previous players wronged you right? Pff.

    At this point you're doing the game a larger disservice by holding on to grudges over simply trying to make the game better.

    Ironically arguably worst in the AV department as well.
    • Up x 1
  13. LordKrelas

    Ah yes, Let us kill the enemy with the Shield, our God power given to us , which is how we win fights apparently.
    Let us hope they don't have Archers, Can't get around a frontal arc, and take advantage of our weakness in killing the enemy
    Let's make sure we don't lose that Winning streak -- Oh, NC has last-place in Alerts? In map wins? Since the start?
    What exactly did the NC domination with a Close-range MAX achieve? Apparently nothing in the grand scheme.

    Let alone, due to a shield, that is directional , for a unit that also was the shortest range, had no sustain, and a long reload time.
    You know, would be completely dead if it didn't have the shield at all, for reaching the locations it wasn't at.

    Wasn't aware, that if NC can't shoot, VS & TR can, and if NC can shoot , that it's Balanced when VS & TR still shoot better.
    After all 2\3 having weapons function at a decent level, is balanced apparently.. maybe for the other two, who now have the easiest target in their lives.

    NC used to have the "I-win-Shield" on the Vanguard, the full power of this mighty MAX shield & Shotgun blast.
    I don't recall them winning the game hard-core, at full throttle, let alone due to a MAX-Shield.
    As it certainly wasn't the Shield keeping the MAX Chokepoints working like witchcraft: It was a shotgun.
    They didn't fear the shield, they didn't have an issue dying due to the Shield: It was the shotgun perhaps.

    Yeah, let's suck it up; Use the Gorgons that the other two have access to, and usually don't use.
    But we have to essentially, or use Guns that have no advantage..
    As our Shield, which disarms us, Is our advantage.. at what exactly? Not dying instantly being we walk to weapon-range?
    How exactly is our Shield worth us losing weapon-wise, in every stat?
    If we don't fire, and use the Shield, we die: if we do use it clever, We still die.

    Is it perfect on activation? No.
    Is it miracle health? No.
    Can we shoot behind it? No.
    We reload behind it, with the longest reload time for all Maxes.
    Is 360 Degrees? No.
    Can a weapon completely ignore it? Yes. Archer fire. At range.

    How the bloody hell, is this Shield the grandest advantage that we need our guns to be inferior?
    The best ability in a pool of **** abilities.
    Fantastic, as we have the worst ******* guns.
    So our ability to kill, is the worst.. Thank the Vanu Gods that be, that we can use an ability to hopefully get in weapons-range.
    You know, How Shotguns are close-range, and MAXes are the slowest unit in the game?
    You wonder why we have a shield that only works in the front: It's since we have to cross the gap of hell, to actually hit something.

    Without the shield, It wouldn't matter if we did 90k damage a shot, or 5 damage a shot, unless we were already in the best possible close-quarters position before anyone even could see us.
    Why: As then we'd be unarmed, and slowly moving, while easily be shot to death before we got to weapons-range.
    Hence the bit where: Unless we are already there.
    That's why we have a shield, It's literally the only way that damn MAX isn't instantly dead outside of a closest.

    • Up x 1
  14. Liewec123

    They're a freaking SHOTGUN max, they should absolutely disintegrate any free infantry class stupid enough to try to CQC it.
    If people were complaining about the range of NC before, then I am in agreement with them, slugs were a stupid decision.
    But it pisses me off when people complain that they got oneshot by trying to cqc a 450 (mbt cost) unit designed for cqc...

    If the moronic devs had simply removed slugs it would have been much more balanced,
    Compared to TR and VS NC would have a fraction of the range, a fraction of the sustained fire,
    huge damage drop off, terrible accuracy and massive reloads,
    BUT they would also have huge cqc damage to warrant all of those negatives.
    Instead the devs decided that NC max should have all of those negatives, but only similar cqc dmg to TR and VS...

    The fact that you haters are celebrating Wrel finally getting his wish of removing NC max from the game,
    Only shows how spiteful you are, and eager for a cakewalk, not a challenge.
    I've cqced an nc max down with freaking Watchman since this abomination of a "balance " patch went live...
    I've also not spent a single penny since that patch, we spent MONTHS warning them on pts that it was terrible, supported with stats showing just how terrible, and they went ahead and did it anyway...
    so i'm no longer gonna pay for Wrel to ruin the game...
  15. adamts01

    Removing slugs would t be a fix. Shotguns still had more burst dps than TR and VS at medium range. It wasn't till 25 meters or so that TR and VS started to play catch up, but good luck securing a kill at that range against a decent infantry target with any faction. Now, sustained dps, TR and VS had an edge, but with protected reloads (shield) burst damage is all that mattered.

    And hell yeah I'm celebrating the NC nerf. It was absurdly broken forever. Just like infantry rightly celebrated the removal of thermal optics from vehicles. And as a thermal/radar/Banshee ****ter, I still understood and agreed with that sentiment.

    And I play NC too. I've got a tricked out max and all their once glorious guns. I paid real money for all of them. So it's not like I'm some TR or VS fanboy.

    As for NC trailing in continent locks, after playing for every faction, I firmly believe it's the players, not the faction. Just look at how well NC does on server smashes. It's tree players. The first step to recovery is admitting it.
  16. pnkdth

    ZOE, when was it nerfed? Like 5-6 years ago? Maybe let that one go...

    Still, doesn't change the nerf was way too much. Could have spoken up earlier though, instead of acting as if slugs were total RNG and the parade of justifications for why it was perfectly fine for the NC MAX to over-perform while dismissing anyone who had any objections (despite the data being there for all to see).

    Personally, I would have rather seen the Scattercannons be different kind of slug variant (I'm thinking Horizon or Tengu to normal slugs). Those would be a who lot easier to play around different ranges and make each arm feel like it was more personality + they'd be more like cannons instead of big shotguns... And maybe keep one or two buckshot arms for nostalgia. I am partial though since I do miss my dear lil' slugger MAX.
  17. Demigan

    Adam, you may have good input in other places but in this topic you are absolutely horrendously wrong.

    To start with a simple truth: VS and TR MAX's have a wide range of ranges where they can be effective. NC MAX's sucked in all situations except one. Why has everyone always been so surprised that the NC MAX is then excessively used in that one scenario?

    Now you've stated amongst other things that the NC MAX had a range of 25m without slugs. But due to damage degradation and COF these shotguns were only really feasible within 8m range, 10m you get problems and beyond 12m these shotguns are already overtaken by the VS and TR counterparts.

    Just to put that into perspective: Sunderers are +/-10m long. You can barely shoot passed a Sunderer and then enemies already started becoming increasingly tough due to factors you cannot control. In the meantime the TR and VS MAX's have no problem being dangerous at 30m. They have sacrificed a lot of their power by then in the form of accuracy, but they can kill enemies and they will have the magazine to do it with.

    Even you know that you are actually biased. On one hand you proclaim that the NC MAX is finally "still plenty competitive", on the other hand you rejoice about how the NC MAX and how we should keep it as it is "just for LOL's". You want it to be inferior.

    The cold hard truth is: The current situation is less balanced than before. Previously the VS and TR MAX were capable of functioning in many scenario's where the NC MAX couldn't do anything, which incidentally also meant that TR and VS MAX stats were lower on average as they were used outside of their effective ranges. But right now?

    NC MAX has:
    • The same DPS
    • Lower magazine size
    • lower damage per magazine
    • longer reloads
    • higher damage degradation
    • lower accuracy per damage point (both a COF and pellet spread)
    • less rewards for skill
    So far the only "advantage" that has been named in favor of the NC MAX is it's shield ability, but it's treated as an instant-invulnerability screen. This is false. Not only does the shield have health that can and will fall, it also has an equip and uniquip time in which you take damage and the shield does nothing. Also the shield does not block 100% of the damage and often bleeds damage to the user. And if you do a battle with an enemy MAX, then by the time you've fired, reloaded with a shield and lower it again, then those VS and TR MAX's are still firing and have kept ahead in the DPS game by damaging you while the shield goes up/down and through the bleedthrough. Not to mention that they have better accuracy, better range, less damage degradation and the ability to dictate the engagement better due to all of that so they can potentially fire from cover while the NC MAX has to engage the enemy out in the open to make sure they are within range.
    • Up x 1
  18. Campagne

    All NC on all servers across the world? This is clearly nonsense and has absolutely no supporting evidence or even a reason to suggest this would be true and only true for the NC but not TR or VS.

    If anything, there is only evidence against this. (Such as the sheer improbability of it all as well as very similar user scores with NS weapons across the three factions).

    Anecdotally I've played with the Miller NC, Miller TR and Connery TR and the two TR are by far the most incompetent teammates I have ever seen in my life. Especially the Connery TR. Absurd to the point of intense frustration and resentment. But just like your claim I can't really prove this isn't just bad luck on my part.
    • Up x 2
  19. Liewec123

    Yes! Didntcha know NC lose far more because they're terrible on every server,
    And VS win far more because they're always mlg360noscope pros on every server,
    Its absolutely nothing to do with balance! It's just bad players always picking NC, and good ones always picking VS!
    But what about the fact that most people play all of the factions, I hear you say? ****, get outta here with that "logic" stuff!
    You're obviously just a better player when you're VS and then turn full preschool when you log on NC!

    Now back on the subject of NC max though,

    Damage drop off and pellet spread make that extremely unlikely,
    Plus, if that was the case (even though in years of playing the 3 maxes id say only mattocks could rival tr and vs at mid range unslugged ) but IF it was the case, then fine increase damage drop off, simple.
    NC max has absolute no business doing decent range damage, what they SHOULD be doing is melting things in CQC,
    It's a unit that costs as much as an MBT and liberator but has no range, no sustained fire, huge pellet spread and many many 1,2 or 3 shot counters.
    It should absolutely be a cqc beast.
    Yet currently as Demigan stated, the NC AI max weapons are simply worse in EVERY aspect to TR and VS AI max weapons,
    All of the old draw backs of when it was a cqc beast, with absolutely nothing to show for it.

    We aren't talking about the shield here, the shield is great yes, but we're here to talk about the weak @$$ weapons,
    (Also I've made suggestions several times over the years for ZOE buffs because I think all 3 factions should have good abilities,
    Just as they should all have good weapons.)
    • Up x 1
  20. adamts01

    A couple good topics here...

    NC = Bad across all servers: There are some decent theories as to why NC attracts who it does (rock and roll faction), and why the TKs happen more often there (200 damage model). But at the end of the day, that faction gained a reputation, and players have embraced it and cemented it. Same as if you tell a good kid over and over that he's bad, he'll eventually start acting the part. And VS got the MLG reputation and built upon it. But as far as balance goes, again, look no further than server smashes, where NC does just fine, and that was even without their broken Max allowed.

    Max: Yeah, I am a little happy it's below the curve. I admit it. I just find everyone trying to defend their crutch hilarious. And seriously, it's no different at all than infantry cheering that thermals were removed from aircraft, even though aircraft got screwed (more so than NC Maxes) with anti-vehicle optics on AI guns. That's fine. Rejoice and poke fun. Something absurdly broken was finally fixed. Just like now.

    And I did buy in to the "situational weapon with no range" argument until I certed out my NC Max. The Mattocks was just a sliver less accurate than the Mercy. The truth is that all Maxes suck at range. VS being the best, but still not great by any measure. Definitely not good enough to make up for their shortcomings against NC up close.

    And seriously, things aren't that bad. On a scale of 1-10, TR's Max was a 5, VS's was a 6, and NC's was a 13. Now NC's is a 4, maybe 4.5.

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