Are there reasonable ways to revamp Heavy Assaults that everyone would be happy with?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Lamat, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. JibbaJabba

    Funny thing is, I'm told HA is about KDR when I don't watch my KDR. I'm told the HA wins because they pop a medkit. I don't even equip the medkit. I'm told they use the I-win button when they are ambushed...Yep, I use that one. Nope, it doesn't help.

    I would be fine with putting a warmup (and cooldown) on the overshield.

    It wouldn't affect my playstyle in the slightest, wouldn't change the dynamic of the HA in the slightest.

    If it stopped the whining as people realized there is no such thing as an I-win button it would be worth it. But it won't. They'll move on to the next thing to complain about.

    The thing I don't get is: If it's so godly OP, why don't people play it instead of complaining about it? Because they want to play the thing they want to play at, and they want that thing to win. All the time. It ain't gonna happen.

    I want to be able to launch a rocket and not have to stand still during flight time so infiltrators don't cap my head. Tough. That's the way the game is. You see me firing up "nerf inflitrator" threads? You see me switching to Inflitrator and running it continuously? Nope. Because I want to play the thing I play. No, I don't win all the time. Nor do I expect to.

    Adopt the same attitude and be happy with the game.
    • Up x 2
  2. TR5L4Y3R

    not without shields, that´s for sure .. so its either keeping the overshield but maybe limiting it to the fronttorso and lower body instead of the head and backarea
    or add more regenerateable shieldhp ..
    just giving 2 suitoptions as in flak+nanoweave won´t keep the HA up long enough to do something

    to me though with the current downsides of the overshield slowing you down and to make you a walking lightbulb at night is fine ..
    in many cases the speed debuff of the overshield is what killed me when i rather should have just run ..
  3. TR5L4Y3R

    you´re right about one thing ... people like to play what is fun .. i have fun with carbines as engineer than lmg´s as HA
    but as engineer against an HA 8 to 9 out of 10 times i am hopelessly outmatched ..
    heck even with a sticky to the body and throwing every shot at it didn´t down him .. don´t know what shield and suit combi he used .. but he just would not die .. so in as far as my experience goes as a engy i am just not allowed to challange a HA myself at all ... i´m not a good player mind you ...
  4. Metalsheep

    I've never felt there was anything wrong with the HA class. They are the front line meatbags that act as targets so your squishier meatbags don't die. They are supposed to be the general purpose class that can go toe to toe with a wide variety of targets. In a head to head the HA should win most of the time as it is designed to do.

    The shield is not some instant win button, nor are medkits. The TTK in this game is so fast and combined with latency, the HA should be dead before he can even react most of the time. Let alone have enough time to medkit or shield to any effect.

    (I'm not the best at math, these numbers could be borked.)

    With a standard weapon like the solstice, 143/700, does 1,668 damage in 1 second. That is far more than a HAs HP and Shield combined. The CARV does 1,787 and can output 1000 damage in about .7 seconds. So at best the HA overshield may buy him 1 whole second of life, and he has to respond to you in roughly .3 seconds, turn find AND kill you, with human reacting time being roughly .28 seconds not accounting for server latency.

    The deck is pretty heavily stacked against the HA, even with overshield. If you got the drop on an HA from a successful flank and he still manages to shield, medkit AND kill you. You failed pretty bad.

    I'm also rather against adding a wind up time to the shield. Since it only grants 450 effective HP, that is just 3 more bullets from most 143 damage weapons. It isn't stout enough to demand a wind up unless you make the shield even more effective at mitigating damage. With HA being the defacto "Breaching" class without considering the MAX unit, only being able to take 3 additional rounds seems anemic for that purpose. And even less so for HA using the shield to duke it out with MAX units or vehicles.

    In the case of removing the shield entirely, I would be more for simply giving the HA more HP innately, similar to how Infiltrators have less HP. You could offset the additional HP by making the HA class move slightly slower than other classes. 10% slower at the worst. That way when you go up against a HA, you KNOW for a fact he has more HP than you and it isn't a roll of the dice as to whether he activates a shield or not. You could even add some kind of suit slot option to give the 10% speed back, but lower the HAs HP back to stock. Similarly to how Infils have to pick Nano-Armor to get that extra 100 shield back for a much shorter cloak time.

    But personally I feel that the HA is fine as is. HA has its place in the game and does its job precisely as it is supposed to.
    • Up x 3
  5. Ryo313

    yep HA is doing it's job... Engi is a SUPPORT class fighting against a FRONTLINE SOLDIER ... dunno what's wrong with that situation.

    if you were a LA things would be a bit different tho... but let's focus on Engi this time.

    well thing is... if you want to take on a class that is literally designed to fight on the frontline (greater durability than other classes) as a support class then you have to use something to gain the advantage... it's called Environment.
    1. use cover heck even partial cover works wonders (and yes an Engi can set up such things now).
    2. wear him down... let him use his shield and run behind corners/around obsticals ... if the HA uses his shield he'll be slower than you and you could set up c4 for giggles or mines or just wait till his shield runs out. (the less energy the shield has the less effective it is (yes i'm aware there is something called resist shield which reduces dmg by 35% till the energy runs out but noone really uses it anymore... most HAs run around with Adrenalin shields)
    3. on the other hand if the HA doesn't use it's shield shoot at his head and keep in mind.. cornerpeeking is important there... shoot get behind cover shoot again .. you get the idea.... (basically same as 1.)
    don't use stickys on infantry... those are better against MAX units i think
    so yeah you can engage HAs as engi or any other class but thing is... as engi you need to use your environment more than a Medic for example... a Medic can simply heal himself during the battle. a LA can simply jump from above and flank the HA. and don't get me even started on Infiltrators...
  6. TR5L4Y3R

    dude believe me .. i got many times the drop on HA´s and i still died .. how? i don´t friggin know .. ..
  7. Pelojian

    regardless of the comparison between assault classes vs non-assault classes, heavy is the only class where they aren't truly vulnerable to ambushes if they have reflexes, if you ambush anyone else you can kill them quickly, heavy just pops their shield and they are protected from all directions.

    no change to heavy will make everyone happy, because the ones that play heavy for the advantages will not like it.

    any change to the shield would be disliked by heavy mains, personally the shield could use some sort of disadvantage other then 'i didn't have it up fast enough' any other class' ability even when you are skilled has some sort of downside someone can exploit.

    if heavy shield was split into explosive/gunfire resist types or their rear was not protected it would give enemies a way to counter them like you can do with infiltrators, light assaults, medics etc.

    medics may have their nano regen device, but superior aim will kill them more often then you can verses a heavy assault.

    right now the best way to kill heavies is sudden death by 2 bricks they didn't see (C4) before they even realize they are under attack.
  8. FirePhox

    "Heavy isn't broken guiz" - t. HA main.

    Just give it a warmup and be done with it.
  9. Halkesh

    HA ability to kick your *** in face to face is fine.
    Their overshield allow them just enough advantage to improve their chances to win on a face to face fight and the other class still have enough chances to win.

    However, HA is unbalanced on the point they are too much independent from support class.
    Suggestion to increase HA dependence to engineer :
    -Reduce HA's primary and sidearm ammo pool (DO NOT reduce rocket ammo)
    -Engineer can build structure from scratch / NS crates on the ground. Any class can use them but HA have better synergy with what these structures offer.

    Suggestion to increase HA dependence to medic :
    -HA now have 200 shield and 800 health*
    -Medic can restore HA's overshield with medical applicator
    -HA take reduced damage from headshot (capped to x1.5) as long as a medic take care of them.

    * : it make HA drastically less resilient without support (that's the goal). Note that a HA with safeguard 5 come back at full shield/health.
    • Up x 1
  10. Oleker2

    What usually goes wrong on this situation is you get the flank on the HA, hit 5~7 bullets on the body, HA pops shiled, spam medkits, look at your way while taking more than 12 shots on the chest, and drops you with unknown amount of bullets because the game gave you only one hit sound. It happens way too often even with head shots mixed in.
    It becomes more exaggerated on mid range since LMGs are way more effective at range than carbines and AR's.

    The game has 5+1 classes and only one is being said to be the "main fighting class", that is also a problem. There is more players going HA than all the other 4 classes combined. The game has very low variation and diversity because of it. Most HA also use NS weapons now days, dropping the diversity even further.
  11. Droid15.24.3

    Look, I hate HA with every fiber in my being, that being said, I want them to stay how they are because killing them just feels so satisfying! Yeah, they can melt you even if you flank them, but sometimes you get lucky and wound up killing a few in an engagement and nothing feels better than that. (Aside from firing a shot with an MBT and watch it sail across the sky to intercept an ESF.)
  12. GenTech

    Keep the HA shields as they are, but decrease their versatility by eliminating their ability to carry a primary and a rocket launcher at the same time (choose between the primary or the RL).
  13. Halkesh

    Nerfing something just for the pleasure to nerf don't work. You have to point out the problem and balance it.
    HA problem doesn't come from their ability to carry a RL and a primary weapon at the same time.

    Assuming your suggestion come to live, people will still complain about HA beating them while face to face. That said, you'll also see HA complaining about how the class suck against both infantry and vehicle while they carry a rocket launcher. (remember than RL are just deterrent).
  14. Ryo313

    over exaggerate a bit more...

    what you are describing here sounds more like a hack (or your slow internet) than a HA. because it's simply not possible. especially not if the HA get's flanked. by the time he gets 5-7 bullets he's dead. if he pops his shield he doesn't have time to switch to medkits use them and switch back to his LMG.. the overshield will be down before the HA can even activate a medkit let alone switch back to a lmg.

    and everything done whilest beeing shot at? haha no way. and with headshots mixed in it's even less possible to do that for the HA.
    nanoweave reduces dmg up to 20% but the thing is... headshots ... headshots still deal tons of dmg.

    stop throwing paper at a HA and use weapons.

    and for the diversity... looks more like an Emerald problem ... on Cobalt you'll see tons of other classes beeing used ... there aren't just HAs running around like you think.
    and if you see more HAs ... go infil and onehit them... heck even an infiltrator can flank and kill a HA if he knows what he's doing
    as for NS weapons... tbh i don't like them either... the only NS weapon i use is the Masamune RL and the Archer for Engi (not including turrets tho... since there are no ES turrets) but the problem with Faction diversity is... there will always be someone who cries about something beeing op .. same with the Classes we are given...
    sure HA may seem OP but from another standpoint..
    Infiltrators are OP as well since they can oneshot any Infantry class whilest beeing outside of their range.
    or LAs are also op... they can reach places no other class can and flank everyone from there or throw c4 from there. oh and they can throw spanwbeacons in said places so only another LA can take those out.
    how about Medic? no other class can heal himself so often during a fight
    Engi? unlimited ammo ( unlimited underbarrel grenades ftw).

    each class has their pro and cons. and each class has its spot on the battlefield. instead of trying to squish a class into something where it isn't supposed to be find it's place.
    and think about it... HA unlike any other class can only fight.. thats it.... he can't use alternative routs like a LA can he can't support his teammates like a Medic or Engi can and he certanly can't infiltrate and hack terminals or pick up infantry from very far away.
    if you engage a HA in his territory and you lose it's not because HA is op... it's because you tried to do something your class wasn't supposed to so...
    you don't run straight up to an infiltrator who's sitting 150m away trying to kill him do you? no you don't. and why? because you know he'll oneshot you . so instead of trying to do something that isn't meant for your class find alternativs .. there is always a way ... (for the infil situation... sneak up on him from behind or an angle he doesn't expect you)
    but enough before i write down a whole book here.
  15. JibbaJabba

    An HA will die over and over if he tries to charge your AI Mana turret or take it down with a rocket launcher. The engy would be playing his class right in this circumstance and I would blame the HA player rather than claiming the Engy class itself was OP. Somehow people don't apply this same logic the other way around.
    • Up x 1
  16. JibbaJabba

    Ergo Decedo
  17. JibbaJabba

    It seems the #1 complaint is an HA using an I-win when someone has outflanked them.

    Answer honestly: If this were somehow fixed, would the ******** stop?

    Because there seem to be a couple legit proposals:
    Warmup (and possibly cooldown) on the overshield.
    Making the overshield front facing.
  18. Ryo313

    thing is.. the "I-win" button isn't even the problem... serverlag is... but most ppl don't or won't understand that
    i had situations where the "I-win" button on my screen was aktive but on the screen of my enemy i didn't had it and he killed me pretty easily while he flanked me from behind. on the other side somtimes i can activate it and it works and i turn around and kill the one who tried to flank me.

    there isn't a (easy) way to balance that .

    but yeah.. if an infiltrator kills you with one hit no one bats an eye but if a HA kills you everyone loses their mind.
  19. JibbaJabba

    I know that. You know that. The people often participating in these whiney threads don't.

    Put a warmup delay on the overshield and it won't really change the outcome of a fight with an HA. If you ambushed him, you'll drop him same as before (because I-win didn't really help before). On the other side of the coin, if he's the one coming at you, he'll still already have it up.

    But hey - if such a change stopped all the whining, I bet most HA main players would be fine with it. Give up nothing for something? Sure.
    • Up x 2
  20. Ryo313

    you are absolutly right. i wouldn't mind a delay on activating the shield. since a HA has to preactivate it anyways to engage in a fight.
    but sadly there are also ppl out there who wants to go on a rampage with a support class and expect to win every 1v1 situation ...
    • Up x 1