Are there reasonable ways to revamp Heavy Assaults that everyone would be happy with?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Lamat, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Lamat

    This thread is not intended as an attack/nerf on HA, only as a discussion about HA, it's role, and are there ways to make HA more fun for everyone in the game. I like HA, but we all have to admit they can be frustrating to face when you're not also HA and lose even when you got the drop on them. I accept the way things are now, but it's also fun to have more variety of classes represented on the battle field, so the intent of this thread is to discuss other options for making HA good at their role other than what's currently in place.

    So let's look at the role of HA

    durable front-line infantry
    suppressive fire
    defense breaching

    Some have suggested a delay to using the overshield, so that it would not be a reactive ability to defend against being flanked, but would instead be used tactically before charging into rooms etc. Would the overshield need enhancements to offset a delay?

    What if, instead of the overshield, or in combination with some form of delayed overshield, we gave HA 2 suit slots of their choice and grant them access to use assault rifles?

    What if instead of overshield, HA had extremely fast shield recharge with almost no delay at all? Meaning you'd have to drop them quick because wearing them down isn't an option. (durability)

    Maybe you think HA is fine the way it is, please feel free to tell us why, or why you think any of the above would be bad for the game.

    For example, does overshield in it's current quick reactive form allow HA to better combat Maxes? Or with Maxes being so loud and lacking the charge ability now, would a delayed overshield still work ok for Anti-Max?
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  2. Campagne

    I honestly don't believe there is any way to keep everyone happy; Someone is always going to disagree with any changes, or lack there of. Better to choose the option that is best for the greater overall game, in my opinion.

    Obviously I support my own proposal. :p
  3. CMDante

    I'd like to see the shield nerfed to uselessness for like... 3 month, just to knock those HA mains down to earth, then buff it again and make it a solid overall option.

    Speaking of options; HA need less of them. Between the best durability in the game, the best guns, and the ability to wreck armor all in one class. Something has to give.

    A ramp-up time would work nicely, or remove it all together and let the 'heavy' part come from their big guns and rocket launchers.
  4. Lamat

    What was your proposal, not covered here?
  5. Lamat

    I can't see nerfing it to uselessness as good for the game, we don't want to make more people leave, just make it more fun for everyone.

    If the overshield was just removed without some kind of new perk added, the only real reason to use HA would be for anti-vehicle/anti-air. Why would you not just play medic in all base fights where you have Assault Rifles (better than LMG) and can heal yourself and revive others?
  6. RockPlanetSide2

    The easiest solution is to remove Medical Kits (heal over time would probably still be ok.. but the instant ones have to go - but they should really both go away now that we have the Regen implant)... as has been properly suggested 1000x before this (if not really 10,000x).

    Self Healing HAs are really the problem. If they can't self heal (or at least have to rely on the Implant - which does not allow them to just heal up and turn around and start blasting again)... they will have to play smarter than just "Activate! and Win!"... or they have to at least retreat and be healed by medics and then re-enter the fight.

    Eventually all the good HA Players (not soon, but eventually) will have Carapace... and if you think it is bad now with Medical kits... wait until then when everybody just is running around with Carapace/Medkits/AdrenalineShield... you will just crap out a gold brick and the sound of all the nerds whining about it will be a deafening Roar... similar to Arnold Schwarzenegger's yell at the end of Predator (except with more tears and estrogen).
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  7. CMDante

    There is no way to make the heavy shield fun for all involved. It outright invalidates options to the point that if you have a heavy shield and get killed you seriously ****** up.

    The problem is that there's currently no valid reason to play anything but a heavy unless you're trying for something specific. They need a mechanical drawback to lessen the dominance of the class and make their be other alternatives.
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  8. BartasRS

    true, especially that after last changes HA AV/AA capabilities are laughable. I think I finished more burning vehicles recently with my Spiker than with rocket launchers.
  9. Campagne

  10. Oleker2

    As said by CMDante, HA have very good guns, Anti-Armor potential and highest survive-ability against everything.

    Nanite Mesh and Adrenaline shields are straight 500 hp bost in one click. Since all other classes have 900 or 1k, its literally a 50% hp bonus being applied instantly.

    Resist shield + advanded shield capacitor gives HA the lowest down time between fire fights in the game.

    Specially on low dmg guns, that can take 12+ bullets in the body to kill, while keeping the HS to kill count the same in 4~5. Skill should be rewarded, but not that much. Also, the die-hard HA will spam med-kits to insta heal and only fire when you enter on reload. Yes... with 12+ bullets needed to kill, they have more than enough time to switch to med kit and spam 2~3 of it before pulling their gun up.

    LMG's already got nerfed many times, but the problem is most of them, specially the default ones are extremely reliable on mid-range and close-range alike. While the default AR's and Carbines are mostly close-range with grater dmg drop-off.

    In my opinion, HA shields should protect from explosions and tank fire only, to specialize them as the main AT infantry, and not the main for everything one. With adrenaline being the only "viable" option for infantry because the kill-recharge mechanic.
  11. Lamat

    How do you feel about a delayed overshield activation?

    Let's say the overshield was removed, how does the HA deal with Maxes and Tanks? That was one reason I thought giving the HA 2 suit slots would allow an HA to be an otherwise normal infantry, but could have nanoweave and flak armor equipped at the same time, making the HA still a good durable fighter and able to fill the anti-vehicle role too, or they could choose to use one slot for grenade bandolier and have more destructive power etc.
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  12. JibbaJabba

    Another one.

    These discussions already start with the assumption that the HA actually needs fixed somehow and move on to discussing the details.

    The HA is fine.

    What I would be fine with: Put a "warmup/cooldown" on the overshield. That way when you get the drop on them and still lose, you can finally **** about the stupid I-win button that doesn't actually help for **** in this circumstance.

    I mean if the thing is so godawful powerful, why don't YOU run it? I know... because it doesn't really pan out the way you perceive it does for others. Same thing happens with other classes but nobody seems to freak. That Infil that got you with a sneaky ambush? Try it yourself... you'll find the real reason he got you is because it took patience and skill.
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  13. Ryo313

    the problem isn't the overshield tho.... HA isn't op.. vesatile but not op those are 2 different things... and yet HA doesn't replace any other Class in the game and needs them because even tho HA is versatile it can't do everything like some ppl think HA can.

    the Resist Shield got already nerft to the ground where nobody even uses it anymore.
    HA that is beeing flanked is a dead HA and his overshield doesn't help there ... you are dead before you can activate it (yeah i know ingame lag and so on ..) especially those LAs with shotguns who are jumping on you from above and behind can quickly drop any HA.
    any Infiltrator can simply oneshot any HA ... especially if they use distance or the suprice moment to their advantage
    a Medic that heals himself is kinda like a semi HA and also a thread to HA ( especially when that medic uses cover to it's advantage it can drop any HA)
    but still... Engis and Medics are support classes and not frontline soldiers and ofc a class that is designed to fight on the front line will do the job better ... you can't tell a Doctor to repair a tank... it's simply not his job.

    as i said years ago.. use your environment to your advantage when fighting against a HA. a HA is slow when useing it's shield.
    headshot a HA the shield and nanoweave armor doesn't help much against headshots.
    EMP grenades are also very effective against HAs simply because they drain all the energy and shield a HA has and when it comes down to HP a HA has the same amound of HP as any other class..

    and what you said above... dunno where you get that from but on cobalt i see tons of other classes on the battlefield not only HAs running around. but it might be due the fact that unlike an Infiltrator or LA a HA got only a single way to approach it's target. he can't jump over walls or get ontop of every building/tree like a LA can or can't sneak it's way into a base or shoot from 100m+ and kill everyone with a single hit.

    but anyways.. it seems that ppl who don't know the game are more likely to cry for nerfs in the forum instead of learning the game and it's mechanics ... it's not that hard to counter a HA even if the HA knows what he's doing.
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  14. The Shady Engineer

    I think a good change would be to to put in a split second delay between returning to normal speed after the overshield goes down. You know, sort of like engineers have a delay for jumping out of turrets. The walking speed penalty for overshield is bigger than people think imo. A glowing christmas tree strafing at 25% normal walking speed is a headshot magnet. The fact that the heavy is back to normal speed as soon as the shield drops negates the supposed downside of overshields though.
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  15. Lamat

    Ok, so your suggestion was close to one in the OP:

    Remove overshield
    Grant free flak armor
    Access to most primary weapons: LMGs, heavy weapons, assault rifles, carbines, battle rifles, SMGs, shotguns


    Remove shield
    Allow 2 suit slots (could be used for flak or something else)
    Adding assault rifles to HA arsenal

    I can see that, if you remove overshield why not allow all primary weapons except sniper rifles? But the 2 suit slots option would actually give more options to the new unshielded HA versus the free flak armor only perk . Thoughts?
  16. JibbaJabba

    How about we do this instead:
    1. Remove the "here I am shoot me!" glow of the overshield.
    2. Remove the movement penalty for using the overshield since nearly all LMGs already have a moment penalty due to being ADS dependant.
    3. Allow the regular shield to charge the same way it does on every other class. Remove the recharge stop caused by turning on the overshield.

    I think that would improved the HA class.
  17. Lamat

    If the thread didn't start with a problem and reason for change, there would be no discussion. Just: "HA Overshield is fine, that is all..." why would anyone post that? Feel free to do so if you want.

    I said I like HA, I do play HA, but a lot of people feel frustrated by them in their current incarnation. And you say essentially: "why don't you just play HA too so you can also have an overshield", that's exactly the point. The overshield arms race makes a lot of people feel obligated to play HA.

    I'd sooner have a more versatile unshielded HA than a nerfed delayed overshield HA personally.

    The whole point of this thread was to discuss possible change or reasons not too change, and you bring up a good point, remove the overshield and where do other classes sit with their abilities?
  18. Lamat

    I think those buffs could be applied if the shield was given an activation delay, but there should still be some kind of visual indicator an HA has his shield up even if not so bright, no?
  19. RockPlanetSide2

    Players that use HA and have great connections and great computers are a problem. There are HAs that are just unkillable, but its more to do with them just having a latency/speed advantage.

    Most other HAs have KDRs of 2 or lower (I don't know the exact nerd numbers)... how is that a problem?... they are running in, kill 2 people, then die. That is not really busted.

    I still like no self healing.
  20. JibbaJabba

    4. Allow HA to fire rockets from a ducking position. It's bad enough that they are stuck standing still for the duration of missile flight.

    5. And that whole ADS slowness + the overshield slowness thing - since HAs are a slow-moving, glowing headshot magnet during this, can we please have nanoweave and the overshield protect the head?

    6. Flipping the overshield on automatically when a back shot hits would be nice. LA and Infiltrator still get a huge advantage here as they can drop the overshield before server latency tells the HA that they've been hit.

    7. Fix the damage on the anti-vehicle rockets. Used to be you could decimator a lightning in the back in just a few shots. Now they just do ignorable plink damage to vehicles. I see it all the time when I'm driving.

    8. Make it so rockets actual damage anti-infantry engie turrets. Nothing one-shot mind you. But something higher than the zero damage they do now.

    9. Reload times. It's in excess of 5 full seconds on some guns. Ridiculous.

    I think we can all agree on these improvements.
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