Are the VS getting screwed with this Anniversary Pack?

Still not as well as an MCG or Jackhammer, hence the complaints.

And other weapons that have splash

Rocket Launchers
Grenades
Pounder Max units, should the Pounder be worse at killing stuff then the Falcon or Comet seeing as it has the whole suppressive thing? It might need a massive nerf then, oh wait its not VS therefore its perfectly balanced...

In fact looking at the (BR100) KPH from day 1 the Lasher has been behind ranging from 4 to 20

But hey it suppresses infantry...

The others merely kill them and force the players to respawn and try again, the Lasher it holds them up and stops them completely...

So lets say that a Lasher has exactly the same Q4a KPH as the MCG, ok. Now how can the Lasher retain its suppressive ability (much or which doesn't get direct kills, but captures and defend bases without doing so)?


Rocket Launcher cannot suppress like a Lasher, they don't have the RoF or AOE range now.
Grenades don't have the RoF or range and are limited by the number you can carry and by resources directly (UBGLs are utterly nerfed now too).
Pounders are the only other infantry-based suppressive weapon and they are great too, their downside and upside is that they are on a MAX however.
The NC literally have nothing like either the Lasher or the Pounder.

Again if you don't understand the power of suppression at this point in PS2s life it is probably pointless to try and explain it, but those that do know it realise how powerful it is, it takes and holds bases that otherwise would not have been.

Its power is not in the killing (although clearly it gets kills), but rather as the name rather suggests in the suppression of the enemy and stopping them being able to achieve their goals - the Lasher does this exceptionally well.

You mean stop someone going into a doorway until 4 other HA + Max's show up, yes I do, I just use LMG's for the same effect, as a VS player.

To use a Lasher's so called suppression

You need to be in a raised area, out of direct line of sight, covering a choke point.

You seem to think it can stop entire armies solo.
I don't, I know it can't, its useful, but 25 damage means you would need 40 shots doing suppression damage alone to kill someone.

The Lasher does not need LMG level of accuracy, it does need a similar KPH/KPU as the MCG/Jackhammer.

Why even without the suppression the MCG brings a long sustained level of fire to the area, Jackhammer brings up close damage especially with the triple shot, the Lasher well at the moment it brings 25 damage to a close miss to the ground.

So WHAT would you like removed from the Jackhammer or MCG to compensate for the Lashers mediocrity?

Triple shot?
BRRT?

Or conversely improved the Lashers damage model from 155 to 175 for direct and from 25 to 40 for splash and go from there.

Combined arms is combined arms that is my point - NO weapon should be a be all and do all weapon (or you end up with the PS1 Lasher 2.0 horror).

The Lasher is an excellent suppression weapon, but a very so so 1 on 1 weapon.
The JH already is a shotgun, it has no real range.
The MCG is what it is, a weird LMG, that will lose to a lot 1 on 1 too.

As I've said you could make the Lasher a great 1 on 1 weapon, but it would HAVE to lose all its AOE - you cannot have both and it remain balanced (buffing it to 175 & 40 would make it insanely overpowered ).

Yes but we have the Lasher mk1

Lasher mk3 or 4 would be nice

I'm sure a lot of TR wouldn't mind trading the MCG for the Thumper, I would on my TR. Hell even if it only had a fuse mode and has only 1 grenade type they would still take it.

Is this thread still going?
The devs are smart enough to know not to buff the Lasher.
But if they did buff the Lasher to raise its KPH and KPU to match the other heavy guns, it WOULD be OP, and it WOULD, after a few months of glorious abuse, be nerfed into the ground. Is that you VS want? Fine.

The Lasher in PS1 didn't really change that much, other than the 2.0 version, the Lasher 1.0 was a really good weapon (arguably better than the 3.0 in some ways and the top VS outfits knew that well), but it had a high skill cap which people mistook for being a poor weapon, hence when it was roundly buffed it became so obscenely overpowered in its 2.0 state.

Loads would, intially their decision was that the Thumper (and anything like it) shouldn't be in PS2, but since then they've tried testing to bring in grenade launchers on MAXs and apparently an infantry based Thumper too - and in both instances found it unbalanceable.

We might see them in the future, but I suspect given PS2s low TTK compared to PS1 we probably won't.... which honestly is probably a good thing, as much as I loved the Thumper, I can't see how they could balance Thumper spam in PS2.

Did you want a Striker instead of the Lasher?
Take it! PLEASE TAKE IT!

Striker lets see

Same crouching CoF as the Lancer
More ammo
Slightly worse damage per clip (after charging to level 3)
Much better at AA
Not so great projectile velocity

Lasher
Slightly better CoF then MCG
Better damage per shot
MUCH worse refire rate
Terrible projectile velocity

TBH I'm just waiting on the Rocklet rifle which will be essentially an NS Lasher (ie a rapid fire low powered rocket launcher whose projectiles have splash damage) with less downsides predictably and more upsides like the mode to empty the clip killing infanty instantly...

They've tried with MAX grenade launchers and had to scrap them (not because they couldn't get them to work like Flamethrowers, but rather because they were either useless or totally overpowered), and apparently tried with Thumpers (although I dunno if they got as far as Test) and again apparently ran into the same problems.

When you consider how powerful the orginal UBGL was, and how nerfed it is now. it is easy to understand why.

I loved the Thumper in PS1, I could litterally turn a battle to take or save a base with it at times (and suprised the #### out of a lot of people that thought it was a rubbish 1 on 1 weapon - it was, but everything is decent when you can reliably hit people in the face with it), but I honestly cannot see how they could bring it to PS2 without ruining or completely rebalancing the game.

When used well, by a few coordinated people that know what they are doing, the Lasher is already on the edge of doing the same.

\

It's funny, because no one asked it to be able to suppress 20 people. You can't suppress a single person with the lasher solo, that's the issue. Any good player knows that all they have to do is brave that 25- 75 damage, round the corner, and gun you down. The tracers tell them exactly where you are, and they'll easily be able to gun you down as long as they have the right weapon.

The only really effective use for the lasher is killing people as they make it to cover. The projectile speed, rate of fire, and cone of fire, make it really difficult to hit moving targets, and gives it a terrible ttk in face to face. It can be done against the right target/situation, but the other player will certainly have the upper hand.

Real suppression weapons, like the fury, bulldog, HE tank rounds, shoulder launchers, etc, suppress their enemy by KILLING them if they're in the aoe range, unlike the lasher.

All main small arms are good in a straight up fight, except for the lasher. Is the lasher's minor suppression ability enough to make up for this? The JH is a medium range burst shotgun...unlike most other shotguns that are short range, this is a huge advantage, you can run a shotgun without and be able to handle ranged situations. The MCG is similair, a sub-machine gun who's COF never changes, it decimates foes out to 30 meters. The lasher is a gimmicky weapon with a very small amount of support utility that only finds footing when being used in coordinated groups.

The only time you can really pull a lasher solo is when you're in a big fight, and you can avoid face to face combat.

That is the thing, the Lasher is a great group weapon that is not so good at 1 on 1 (although nowhere near as bad as many pretend), but is very good at suppression.

The JH is a good 1 on 1 weapon (at close range), but is range limited (the JH doesn't beat anything at "medium" range other than shotguns), but terrible at suppression and isn't really (IMO) a great group weapon (no Shotguns are).

The MCG is ok 1 on 1 (although not remotely the best), ok at most ranges (although again not remotely the best), and can suppress reasonably with direct fire (as much as direct fire can suppress), it probably works best, like the Lasher, when used as part of a group.

To suppress with RLs you need many more players than with Lashers a similar level of suppression.

Vehicles suppress better, certainly, but we're talking about infantry based suppression here, most bases are now reasonably well designed to limit direct vehicle suppression. If anything the VS still has the advantage there however as Mags are the best options for getting angles for fire into bases in most cases.