Are MAX units good for the game?

Discussion in 'MAX' started by NinjaTurtle, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. MasterDemoman

    NO light assaults do not wreck MAX suits. Have you ever used a concussion grenade? You can just throw one of them and then spray the MAX with an SMG, if you really want to.

    MAXes are perfectly balanced, and they're honestly really easy to kill, I'd almost say they're under-powered. They aren't under-powered, C4 is just broken. Anyway, you can hear them from a mile away, you can shoot them outside their effective range, you can concuss them and run circles around them, and you can instantly kill them with C4. If you're fighting a competent enemy and you have competent backup, you're really just a different type of threat, not necessarily a greater one.
  2. Axehilt

    Factors like skill, support, etc, aren't part of the base MAX attributes. So they're not relevant to that.

    When it comes to aggregate weapon stats, those factors are part of the stats. But most MAXes are unsupported. Certainly with my own stats, the only support I get is random (and therefore quite infrequent) and yet I still see the same massive advantage to MAXes over my next-best-class that I've seen in the ~26 players' distinct stats I've pulled.

    44% of your kills are from MAXes. You might not want to play the "perspective card". Perhaps you'd like to attempt an explanation of why my perspective is flawed. I play MAX because the weapons opponents could attempt to bring to bear on me can't be brought to bear faster than I can kill those players. So no single player can counter me, even very good players get torn up faster than they can kill me. Which is a huge part of my large stat advantage as a MAX-heavy player (though it's only ~10% of my playtime, compared with your 47%.)
  3. Lamat

    Well I agree to a change to MAXs in their infantry role to short range shock troop. But I don't agree to a straight-up nerf. My suggestion makes them tougher but reduces ranged damage.
    • Up x 2
  4. MAXArmar

    All I keep hearing is essentially "change all MAXes to mimic NC MAX gameplay" with the short-range (melee or not) playstyle. Do we really want that, also taking into account the amount of nerf-rant about NC MAXes?
    • Up x 1
  5. NightEngine

    Full of yourself much?

    You're forgetting Side C, which says, MAXes are extremely vulnerable alone against coordinated, intelligent attack, which is the main thrust of PS2, not one-on-one engagements. There is no way in hell a lone infantryman - regardless of personal skill - should be able to stand against a MAX because of it's resource cost and the drawbacks it does, indeed, have. I have no idea why you want to water down teamwork.

    Now it just so happens that I can solo unskilled MAXes on a regular basis because I understand the tools at my disposal (unless I'm an infiltrator or a medic, usually). But why is the concept of fighting smart so offensive to your sensibilities? Why do you want PS2 to be like every other shooter?
  6. Lamat

    NC MAXs are easier to deal with because you know their range, they are far less versatile. Also my suggestion takes one shooting arm away, so it wouldn't even be as deadly as NC currently unless you were in melee range, in which case you will and should get wrecked.
  7. Axehilt

    Are you talking about a MAX attacking a 25-player base alone? That seems rather irrelevant, don't you think?

    Or are you talking about a random MAX who's soloing in a 25v25 fight? That's the sort of fight where I got my 49-killstreak. MAXes aren't balanced there, that's for sure.

    So what "organized" fight are you talking about where MAXes are balanced? Because the more organized you get, literally the more MAXes there are (out of the few competitive matches PS2 has had, they've all been extremely MAX-heavy, fielding 40-60% MAXes because the class is overpowered.)

    So it's not really about the 1v1 balance, but the 1v1 balance informs the discussion: If it's a 10v10 and 5 of my players are MAXes, then you literally have to dedicate all 10 of your players to killing my MAXes, and then on top of that I get 5 support players who can also kill and/or support the MAXes and we emerge victorious. And the root of that victory is that MAXes are overpowered and you didn't take enough of them.

    Killing unskilled MAXes is meaningless to this discussion. We're discussing unit balance, not skill balance or pop balance or base balance. Spikers aren't a strong weapon because an outfit won a 40 vs 5 fight with Spikers-only. Knives aren't stronger than LMGs just because I beat some LMG-using newbie. We have to eliminate those unrelated factors and assume equal population, skill, and situation.
  8. Nehlis

    I keep telling you guys; don't treat it like a regular infantry class. It is an infantry sized vehicle and should be treated as such. Its durability lies between a flash and a harasser, it moves slower than both and has a lower effective range than either. The only real difference is you cant lock on, and considering its engagement range you usually wont have to. Bring rockets, grenades and c4. Even with max flak armor the MAX wont survive 2 blocks of c4, or a couple of well placed grenades. Even if you miss the toss you'll likely take out its support team, meaning its just an overglorified HA.
    • Up x 1
  9. Thunderbug

    The answer to the question are MAX units good for the game is a straight up no. Too strong, too easy to acquire,
    Or we could keep the vehicles outside? MAX units are trash that do nothing for the game but hurt it.
  10. Nehlis

    Or you could learn to play. MAX units have their weaknesses that can be easily exploited by a non-trash player. They're slow, cumbersome, big targets with shorter range than most infantry classes, they're dependent on engineer and medics to support them, and are just as vulnerable to explosives as any infantry. The only time they will kill you is if you round a corner and run straight into them, which would be a clear lack of capability on your part.
    Yes, MAXs are good for the game. They provide a reasonable siege-breaking unit to break through locked down sections where normal infantry cannot and vehicles are unavailable. It also an argument towards preventing all units from being blandly the same.
    • Up x 1
  11. DrBash00

    Hmm nerfing everything to death...

    Maby start thinking in new ways, like making EMP deactivating maxes for a few seconds, this would make engies (with 4 granades) MUCH more valiable for teamplay and lowering the impact of maxes.
    On the other hand it would making attacking well defendet positions easyer, so maby give the engie the option to put up "emp shields".... or wathever...

    Maby stop thinking about removing good stuff from the game (or just nerfing it to death) but think about what could be addet, so we have a EPIC gameplay, where you need to think and know the next step of your enemy... so you can counterplay him...

    Instead of nerfing all out of the game, so we are left with some counterstrike clone with more player...
    • Up x 1
  12. Morsigil

    I don't understand why there are so many people in this game arguing for "balanced classes". This is not World of Warcraft. You are not stuck playing a Paladin to level 80. You can go between Paladin and Mage or whatever else you want. Each class fulfills a role, and they are not all equally good at each role, nor should they be. This is not Call of Duty. This is closer to Team Fortress, hats and all. Nobody there is (or should, anyway) be arguing that the heavy 1 v 1 the scout, or vice versa. They do different things, and it's okay if there is a discrepancy in their ability to inflict damage.

    People want this game to conform to their ideas of what the game should be, but the idea that everyone should be able to 1v1 is drastically different from what it is. That is not what this game is now, nor what it has ever been. Feel free to continue complaining about it, and I'll admit I'm relatively new, but I don't see any reason to change MAXs as they stand. I think being able to pull them from sunderers creates a more dynamic battlefield.

    Side note: The classes in WoW never were balanced of course, but Blizzard "tried".
    • Up x 1
  13. Thunderbug

    Lol what a load of crap. Typical omg just C4 them durrrrrrrr. Just a min ill try walking onto A which has 4 maxes in and a bunch of other dudes....... im back it didnt go well. OMG a lone MAX is soooo eaaaasy to kill if your in a coordinated squad and hes like on his own in the middle of your warp gate you must suck brah. I could reply with some more sense but given your response was the same as i have seen 1000000000000 times I dont think there is much point.

    I gotta say though your line of "They provide a reasonable siege-breaking unit to break through locked down sections" was ******* hilarious. MAX at choke point vs MAX trying to get through choke point is ******* IDENTICAL to not having maxes their in the first place.

    P.S When the single best counter to a unit is the same unit then you have bad game design. Ah good ol CNC generals. "OMG BRAH GATTLING EMPERORS ARE LIKE SOOOO OP" "OMG NO THEY ARE NOT BRAH JUST USE SOME GATTLING EMPERORS TO KILLS EM DEAD" -_-

    NO games should be fun and the MAX class takes the fun of the game and ***** on it.
    How is both sides spawning MAX's to counter the other sides MAX's a ******* fun idea.
  14. Nehlis

    Also, why don't you post your stats. If MAXs are so OP you can obviously show me from your personal stats which would clearly be a BR 100 with all auraxium'd MAX weapons.
    Otherwise you have little to no credibility, no argument, and nothing whatsoever to back you up.
    Actually, I think I might save your quote. Excellent grammar.
  15. ComradeHX

    Imo, currently Maxes are mostly fine except for the charge. Even VS(faster walk speed makes hitting with rocket at medium range much more difficult).

    Increase regular "sprint" speed by 25%(but takes longer to accelerate) and removing charge ability should do the trick.

    Maxes should be able to charge into a room; but not out of it(at least not quickly/easily).
  16. Xasapis

    You just described a room made in heaven ... for my grenade bandolier 4 AV grenades.

    I do understand though that people that have not fully certed their characters are limited in their options with dealing with MAXes.
  17. Neo3602

    I don't really care what happens to MAX's AI ability as long as they keep their current AV power.
  18. MrForz

    Well. Fresh MAXes are equipped with one AI gun and one AV gun, they tend to have trouble dealing with infantry effectively too.
  19. Maldrasou

    I haven't use maxes much but I have dabbled with them in the past, I've got around 2500 hours playtime spent across TR and NC and around 52 hours of that was in a max. I only have two issues with the maxes and one will be fixed once they finish rolling out the resource revamp completely.

    First of all, a cautious max that has been playing for a while will notice c4 traps and will be harder to take down via rockets in general just due to the person learning the game. This combined with the incomplete resource system leads to "career maxes" as in being able to chain pull nothing but maxes and stay in said max for most of the time that they are not in armor/air. This will be fixed once phase 2 or 3 of the resource system is installed. It just annoying having to kill the same max 2-3 times before he switches to something else. *not counting medic revives*

    Maxes in large scale fights 48+/96+ never bothered me, you know where to expect them for the most part, there are plenty of friendlies to help deal with them and there is a good chance you have maxes on your side so everything evens out. However in small battles1-12 maxes ruin fights regardless if they are friend or foe. The game changes from a capture and hold type death match into a "lets kill the maxes before the maxes kill the fight"

    Just putting in my two certs, play the game in what ever way makes you happy.
  20. MAXArmar

    Wouldn't say a "career max" is necessarily a bad thing, if that is what people (like me) like. However, I'm all for re-introduction of the respawn-timer for the MAX-suit. This allows dedicated MAX-players to burn certs on reduction of the spawn timer while at the same time preventing everyone and it's mother from chain-pulling MAXes (especially if MAXes come at 50% price after Hossin wins).