All this shotgun talk reminds me that at one point shotguns did need a buff, they are purely a tactical usage if you can get in range and nail a shot within a very tight window, i found decent success on engineer and medic using tools or positioning to outdo and eek out the 2 shots needed by just being more flexible. The problem is that they were random as hell, if i recall an update fixed this mostly. The thing is im worried that in terms of usability on LA, shotguns are slowly gonna be beat back into their corner compared to the other, lets say, less optimal choices. Are LA's gimping shotguns by being bursting jetpackers or assassins with them? Should they have a light shotgun class that are just the slightly nerfed shotguns of old while the less mobile classes get to keep the higher stopping power? I'm not even say dont nerf it, just the distinction could be very healthy for the shotgun classification based more-so over effective range/spread rather than raw damage numbers.
LAs with shotguns are not nearly as 'bad' as HAs or even Medics with shotguns. Its just that LAs either come flying at your face with jumpers or surprised you by using the jetpacks so they make more of a memorable impact. I wouldnt be surprised at all if the shotgun deaths I have are mainly from HAs but I cant really remember any of them because its usually just another head on fight that I lost so nothing special happened. I think it was a big mistake to give shotguns flechette ammo and the smart-choke combo, shotguns were fine before that. You could play around their short range but now its like "haha shotgun goes BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! from across the room!". Most base fights are within the range of flechette shotguns and the smart-choke keeps it accurate.
Oh damn i never tried the new ammo tbh, stuck in my old ways, whatever nerfs happen i hope normal shotgun normally stays. Properly looking at it, it seems redundant with slug since that was the healthy ranged option? And yeah impactfulness and memorability is what people will complain about mostly.
Flechette ammo triples the shotguns max and minimum damage ranges at the cost of 1 pellet *Edit: well it depends on the shotgun too, its like 1-3 pellets. Most shotguns have either 5m or 8m and 20m as their max to minimum damage ranges, slap Flechette ammo on and that goes to 15-24m maximum damage range and minimum to 60m.. its ridiculous.
It should be double at MOST and maybe just the max range instead of min, start there, because chunking someone with a shotgun mid-close range is pretty neat and if you give up 1shots for more of that could be good, still think that slug is a healthier alternative for the game and mindset entirely.
I prefer hip-fire monsters like GD-7F and Jaguar where I can hipfire anyone within 20m and ADS well beyond that or simply run the ASP SMG secondary on light assaults. Alternatively I'm using the Baron or Viscount. Point being, Light Assault has lots of great CQC options so one category of guns being nerfed doesn't affect them much IMO. Ambushers with pump-actions and with the pre-nerf Aerial Combatant implant was super strong as you used to jump, kill then immediately recharge your jets. It has been nerfed since and doesn't work anymore. I believe this hits Engineer the most because of ASP Secondary being a shotgun, thus indirectly gimping AMR and battle rifle users. Heavy assaults with shotguns too but I barely see them. In any case, full auto shotguns getting reeled in was the right call although a bit too harsh IMO, with the nerfs both the pumps and full-autos still have the same ideal TTK but now have to land an extra pellet or two to achieve optimal TTK, it might not be as harsh as it seems but I'd at least like to see a smaller nerf on PTS, with nerf reducing damage by 2 tiers they seem to be bringing their consistency and TTK back to the time when nanoweave gave 20% small arms protection. I'm certain this change happened 100% because of outfit wars and ppl on Reddit moaning about shotguns and NC Jackhammer, not with Light Assault shotgun use.
Nah, ignorance will do that. people will always complain about shotguns, other weapons are often just as powerful if not better when you use the same strategies as with shotguns. People will simply always complain about shotguns as it requires the player to play differently and actively avoid "regular" engagements. Ambushers arent some magic tool. People treat them as teleporters but they only function when you ambush people since flying in a straight line at an opponent and landing out of cover for any of his allies to shoot you is a perfect recipy for the shotgunner to suicide unless you can surprise and pick off people one at a time. In most scenario's the other jumpjets work just as well if not better since you have more places to reach and ambush from.
Alright i understand, as long as shotguns dont get turbonerfed because of that new ammo instead of that ammo being violated im good, if people use this as an excuse to 'nerf that noob weapon class' they hated for years that's sad to me. Other then some damage nerfs to make it more towards pre-nano, that's mostly sane and agreeable.
I don't see why mid range gun people aren't liking shotguns. I know why I don't, I'm a knife main & I have to 2 hit with knives, so getting 1 hit by a shotgun isn't fair. Yet if you have a mid range smg, carbine, or lmg you have range advantage. Nor is flak ammo making 1 hit shotguns ok for range. Taking away flak won't stop 1 hits, so it's not the ammo. VS also seems to have the worst 1 hit shotgun out of the 3 empires, seems slower with bad bullet drop. Diemos. Pretty much people don't want to be 1 hit by anything. All 1 hits are lame. For every fps game. Even counter strike no scope snipers were lame. Halo Infinite snipers were lame. & So are Halo Infinite 1 hitting of vehicle weapons. Nobody likes 1 hit snipers esp at near to mid range, Javelin drivers don't want to be 1 hit by tanks, they took away 1 hit knives for good reason I'm okay with, & not a fan of scout rifles 2 tapping nearly as fast as 1 hit snipers, nothing. The only examples of 1 hit that's are somewhat fine, are 1 hitting flashes with a tank shell as flashes only are 50 nanites or less, 1 hitting esf's with tank shells, or 1 hitting infantry with a lightning or halburd. Then again 1 hitting of flashes makes every flash user have to use invisible flash, or else it sucks, turbo flash is meh, all other types of flash aren't working. I'd buff the hp of non invis flashes, that don't use av guns, so ai non invis flash hp buff. Btw daredevil turbo flash suicides often from falling on boulders or jumping too high. Daredevil for flash barely gives it extra jump, buff the jump. Yet as for infantry weapons, nothing should be 1 hitting, besides maybe a sniper at the farthest range possible only, from mountain vistas or bridges. If the sniper is running around door fights tho, no it should never be allowed to 1 hit, should have to use their pistol. Even the guy who mains all 3 Max alts isn't a fan of how op the shotgun max is. He believes tr max is weakest. & I personally find vs max not special enough. The only max with a useful ability seems to be the nc max shield. The vs max doesn't need more rpm (vs max I'd rather use default regen) & the tr max ability I rarely see used. Infantry simply don't want to die 0.1 seconds worth of reaction time, or they want reaction time to begin with. I've heard Zealous's video saying HA are worst with shotguns than LA, someone said that here too. I don't know which is worst, LA jump to your face, meanwhile HA take 3 or more knife hits to kill. Yet for HA I'm more bothered from Sweeper Hud or Avoidance making all my AI mines useless. Half the HA run one of these 2 implants. Personally I find all the VS shotguns not as good as the other factions, besides Pandora & pandora doesn't seem like a shotgun, as it just sprays bullets while holding the mouse down, I still like pandora, it's just not traditional shotgun style. & The other vs shotguns aren't shotgunny enough either. While were at it VS smg's are meh too, they seem like carbines or something. I play TR alt these days just from being ok with their few smg's, since vs's smg's are too average. Also every faction doesn't have enough smg's to pick from either. Every faction only has 2 or 3 smg's? Seems like 2 only. Would like smg underbarrel attachments. Grenade launcher smg's pls. & ways to restock underbarrel ammo per kill, without taking a implant slot. If their gonna keep 1 hitters, than infil stalker would require default shotgun resist hp, as I have to 2 or 3 hit knife a 1 hit shotgun person. While walking nearer than they have to. P.s. Utility mines are too many nanites to set 1 kill (concus, flash mines, emp mine) budget mines pls.
No offense, but you don't have any idea how strong shotguns are right now, as you haven't played the game in like a year. They received buffs to consistency, an indirect 20% damage buff with NWA removal, and they got weapon attachments which further buff consistency/range with tradeoffs.
There is a simple reason for that, the curse of VS is that if they have a benefit then they must immediately get a drawback that negates it or makes it worse. VS shotguns do not have bullet drop, so they all have lower projectile velocity than the other factions shotguns. You dont have to aim half a pixel above your target, just aim a meter or two to the side if they are moving instead. Amazing trade! Slug ammo does not gain the VS no bullet drop perk, they even get their velocity buffed to 300m/s like every other faction. Its not a big difference in velocity but VS shotguns are worse than the others because of it.
I wasn't referring to their performance. Just their entertainment use style. They don't " feel " like shotguns", maybe its the optics or how they fire, I don't know. Take the default tr shotgun " Barrage " & compare that to vs shotguns & you'll get what I'm saying. VS shotguns need to hit like a truck. for entertainment purposes & rework their firing style. Plus have optics that don't remind people of carbines. Overall the VS having this " no bullet drop " stuff is old, vs would be better with a different reason for existing. Or other tech examples. Is the magriders gravity floating tech, also about no bullet drop? not really. other examples of alien tech than just bland no bullet drop stuff. Same goes for VS's smg's they remind me of carbines how they look or shoot. & not smg's, so I don't play any of the vs smg's Sirius or Eridani nope. Canis shoots smg style, yet I just am not a fan of the name & would want to rename gun. Want to rename VS pistols , rename the Cerberus. & rename " Spiker " ew. no thanks (& don't want my ammo popping near the optic when I shoot). As for TR's Armistice or Hailstorm SMG, I know one has slightly more rpm & the other 60 bullets. Tho they shoot nearly the same way, the play as if they are the same gun still. & Jackels side magazine sticking out of the side, may seem unique, yet is distracting & doesn't look good. Punisher my LA has overused to death, as I have to use bounze attachment just to enjoy ambusher jet or I won't enjoy ambusher jet, the downside is, I'm sick of equipping that gun. Maybe give other guns the option to bounze. & lower the price of bounze grenades, from 50 nanites to 10 nanites per. NSO Smg's are very stale, I prefer one of the scout rifles for nso that shoots similar to a smg, rather than the actual smg's. What is with the NSO general gun style for all nso guns, why do they all look like plastic models? & shoot like bolt nail guns? NSO needs way less bolt firing modes. Even NSO pistols, stale bolt style, eh. NS-7 PDW needs underbarrel attachments or something to make people want to use the gun, they don't. MKV suppressed often has you die with 1vs1's verse HA, as is does weak dmg. Also requires underbarrel. Tengu gets replaced with the Kappa & then you never use it again. Haven't tried the nc smg's, nc hasn't required alt help.
If shotguns are actually similarly capable at range as many CQC weapons like SMG's or CQC Carbines then you can ignore that part (although it would make Ambusher jets even less useful as you don't need them to close the range as much). However regardless of the actual state shotguns are in, people will always complain.
