[Suggestion] Archer - Awful to Not Terrible & Back

I wanted to Aurax a weapon from the Sniper family. Probably the only directive class I will ever get 5 weapons to Aurax for the reward weapon. So I started with the Archer - this was about 2 years ago. It was a terrible weapon. After a long break I came back & it had been improved but now it has been nerfed into uselessness again.

I don't understand why. It's not as if it was suddenly the go to AV weapon. I understand that a squad all rocking one could be an issue for distant armour but it is something I didn't see on live. I remember when the original Striker completely screwed everyone who wasn't TR when it was introduced. Archer was nowhere near that, I rarely see other Archer guys.

So you basically have a rifle that takes your primary slot and makes you a sitting duck in pretty much any infantry encounter. And for that sacrifice you get something that is basically useless as an AV weapon. Yeah you can hit things that are far away but you can't really do anything to them - you might occasionally kill something that has already been pretty much destroyed. It's supposedly an anti-max specific but that is a role that is niche AF and good luck finding a max that is solo and doesn't have an engineer on it's back.

The thing that always bothered me about this rifle was that it didn't OHK infantry. It's an anti-material rifle, it should rip a troop apart. I get that they don't want it to be an AI weapon but it makes no rational sense that a troop can survive an Archer round. It reminds me of the pilum from 2142, that would OHK any soldier with the downside being that it only had one round in the chamber and would need a reload to fire again. That could work here I think, it would mean that an Engi with excellent aim could get one kill before he was sprayed down. With that same mechanic I also think it should do much more damage to armour.

I think it could be allowed to OHK infantry from up to medium range, it should not be a sniper rifle tho.

I do agree that the reward for quick drawing it, aiming down sight, and capping somebody in the forehead should be a kill at cqc - medium range... long range no.

Archer is better than it was before. It lost the 2 head-shot kill on maxes, but got overall dmg buff on all vehicles. Still, 2 hits do infantary, 3HS~4BS to max. But now its basically a sniper rocklet rifle with infinite ammo.
Anyway... if you really want to aurax it, i suggest maxes only.

This seems like my kinda subject. *Ahem*

Despite the post-CAI tweaking that made MBTs, Lightnings, and Sunderers more resistant, it's still a huge overall improvement over before. I'm a little disappointed that my extensive shots-to-kill testing was partially invalidated, but that's fine if it's in the name of balance. Admittedly it hit tanks pretty hard for a weapon whose accuracy is not dependent on close range (like rockets and rocklets). And they wanted Sunderers to be a bit more inherently resilient (which I agree with), so things had to be toned down here as well.

Also: with its now x2 headshot multiplier, 1 headshot + 1 bodyshot kills are possible within 124m. It's actually pretty decent at range as long as you have cover or can dance through enough bullets.

I don't think it should kill in a single headshot even if it's only at close range. That would invalidate the trade-off for having an engage-anything long range weapon.

Considering it's a support AV weapon in addition to slow infantry TTK, I wouldn't recommend trying to Auraxium it. I have about 1700-1800 kills across 3 characters (~900 on VS, ~500 on NC, ~300 on TR). While I definitely have the cumulative kills to Aurax it, it's only from excessive dedication to the weapon. I never carry anything else on my Engineer and I play the class 80-90% of the time. I only really pull other classes if the situation absolutely calls for it or I need a short break from trying to compete using pistols.

It still kills a MAX in 2 headshots, within 60m. Takes an extra bodyshot now though.

OHKs out to 100m should be fine, as it's basically the same as the Ghost/SAS-R/TSAR-42, and it still wouldn't hold a candle to the NSX Daimyo. That OHK would probably mean the hipfire cone would have to be enlarged. As for AV, I firmly believe it needs to be close to useless outside of 300m, but it should be buffed within that range. If you want a healthy and competitive environment then you can't be having invincible units that don't even render destroying armor columns. I'm not up to speed with the new numbers after the latest patch, but the max damage range could be at 100 then it could drop to nearly nothing at a min damage range of 300.

For me, it's still hot garbage for the same reasons since day 1 :

1. Long-range weapon with weak burst potential against full-health targets. You'll only ever score a kill or significant damage if your target is already in bad shape, thus it's overly situational already. Can't count how many times I've scored a HS only for the target to medkit spam and ADAD beyond belief. Full health MAXs usually instantly escape after the first hit.

2. 100% utility, 0% actual effectiveness. Doing damage =/= killing things effectively. Yeah, being able to do damage to everything sounds nice until you realize you got practically no burst damage and piss poor DPS unless you fight MAXs.

3. You can make a loadout with great versatility (Carbine + Tank mines + MANA AV/AI) that can do everything infinitely better than the Archer.

4. Bad Godawful class to be on. If it was a Medic weapon, it'd be good 'cause as a Medic you can be more mobile and be able to do more things as an infantryman, if the other 3 classes had it, it would've synergized fairly well (infils can hit-and-run very well, LAs can get sick flanks and be nigh untouchable, HA would be the ultimate MAX killer), but Engi just sucks for this. Almost no way to fight back or run, and if you use turrets you're simply too slow to advance and will often risk getting exposed with pants down if you play aggressively.


Tried the Archer, but everything I can do with it, I could do so much better with AV MANA, mines and a Carbine, well maybe except AA. If you want to aurax it try waiting for burning vehicles and shoot the rear, or kill badly damaged MAXs.

Maybe. Though I'm pretty sure infantry with long-range weapons render up to 600/700m and compensating ~0.5 seconds ahead and dealing with drop is enough, I don't oppose it getting buffed in all but the longest of ranges and getting a nerf in an area absolutely no-one dabbles in.

An Anti Armor Rifle, able to penetrate a thick tank armor, that isnt even able to penetrate a simple body shield and a thin sheet metal helmet? On the other side, a Sniper rifle, not being able to penetrate a tank armor, but OHK Infantry?
What a stupid concept, isnt it?
Every kind of rifle being able to penetrate and kill tanks should be able to OHK Infantry - but hey, the whole damage concept in PS2 is only worth a facepalm...
Infantry surviving tank shells, MAXes get roadkilled by Flashes... and so on... /facepalm

the problem are the directives themselves .. those aren´t for players but for masochists ..
like how is a noviceplayer like me ever meant to be able to get a 1000+ kills with a midrangesupportweapon?
when should i ever achieve that? when i get my pension?
also why is it that i first have to have 5 weapons of the same type before i can even fully aurax one?

Where did you read that nonsense? All infantry render at the same 300m maximum range, same as maxes. And no, .5 second travel time and a little drop isn't substantial when you're shooting at a tank. After you range your target just remember what mil-dot you're on and plink away with 100% accuracy. Now, if infantry could render and be shot back, then I'm all for it, but as long as they're invincible then they can't deal meaningful damage, even if those shots are hard to pull off.

ESF rockets not killing entire buildings of infantry....

I agree with your tank shell and flash/max examples, but not because of real life. Serious concessions need to be made for gameplay reasons, especially with zero logistics in game and a 300m render range of infantry. And also, short of the 50BMG, modern sniper rifles aren't even punching through WW2 tank armor. Their bullets are just a chunk of lead wrapped in copper, it would be silly for that to drill through armor plating.

it´s called videogameballance.. yes there are some silly things but if every weapon becomes ohk then the game comes down to spot first kill first .. or incase of infantry vs tanks "don´t even dare coming out"

It works ok for vehicles. Definitely can help out your tanking buddies against other armor.

I think it was from patch notes (not sure what patch specifically, though)? Also heard some people talking about that being a thing a year ago.

I don't mind if infantry rendered up to 350m, the same as ground vehicles.

what do you mean?

You can aurax a weapon, any weapon any time you like.
Its just that the Master directive tier doesnt show up until you complete the Expert tier.
But you can still earn 1160 kills with anyting to get aurax, it tells you on the weapon select menu how many kills till next level.

Here:
Game Update 6/17/15

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/game-update-6-17.227720/#post-3207953
More specifically:
Balance:

• Infantry awareness/render range now takes loadouts into account, players with a long range weapon in there loadout can be render up to 600 meters away, depending on the weapon; this includes AV MAXs and Sniper Rifles.

Vehicles render at 800, fyi. I think everyone would be happier with greater render distances, but with current technology and this many players that's not a possibility. This is one reason I love Arma so much, if your machine can handle it there's no limit.

• I gave you a thumbs up and applaud you for providing a link. But this patch is from 2 years ago and for whatever reason doesn't apply to the current game. No infantry or Maxes render past 300m, period. Test it for yourself on your server. I've lived this problem daily with HAs before Critical Mass and with Bursters and Strikers to this day. Invisible units kill competition, and competition is what's most lacking in this game.

Infantry render upto 700m (if the area isnt too crowded) and its confirmed, because my longest range killing someone in 1 shot was 695m, measured with waypoint set. And a few meters more, toons were vanishing

You're sure this is still in game? This wasn't a couple years ago? I've got a pretty good PC with everything cranked up and I've never seen it, not once in a year. And I've paid particular attention to this as a Hornet ESF fighting Maxes and lock-on squads. Stalkish quoted a patch note from 2015 about long range infantry rendering out to 600m, but there's no way that's still in game.

I feel you!!

Yes, I am - Im a long range sniper, killing people from 350 to 700m and I do it daily

Is that all infantry, spotted infantry or long range infantry?