Aother shotgun nerf=another NC MAX nerf

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Chewy102, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. Goretzu

    The problem is at best the NC AI MAX has a stalemate (if they play perfectly).

    This again is almost certainly why NC AI MAX are performing so badly staticstically at present................. and now they are about to get a blanket TTK, DPS and range nerf on top of that underperformance. It is crazy. o_O
  2. Primarkka

    So the NC MAX are really bad and the players using them just way too good? Ok, thanks.
    It certainly doesn't sound like ZOE discussion "VS are just good".
  3. Goretzu

    No the NC AI MAX is simply performing the worst of the 3 AI MAX (TR/VS/NC) statistically.

    This is likely because of all the reasons mentioned since the blanket nerfs.

    Now they are going to blanket nerf again (on top of the existing nerfs) damage per shot, damage per second, TTK and range drop off for NC AI MAX.

    They are massively nerfing the worst performing AI MAXs, which is plain bonkers. o_O
  4. Primarkka

    Note the upcoming Flamethrowers. Get ready for the worst time of your PlanetSide 2.
  5. Purg

    Have you given it a decent run? I loathed the idea of a shield but kept a somewhat open mind. When I play TR/VS MAX I feel naked without it now. The amount of LA's wielding C4 the shield has saved me from has more than paid for it - charge may have saved the day but it doesn't allow you to deal with the threat, it also has a cooldown and there are times I've charged out of a situation just to land in an even worse one. Had an LA toss 2 C4 at me the other day, when I absorbed those using my shield I shot him out of the air, can only imagine the cries that came on that end. I also find it invaluable when you're on AV/AA duty.

    I love the shield, I just hope it's altered so that damage doesn't bleed through - at times it feels like you have no shield at all. It needs to block damage a little more around you.
  6. Goretzu


    With the current position of NC AI MAX weapon, along with these further nerfs the addition of Flamethrowers will likely make the NC AI MAX weapons both utterly pointless and plain laughable.

    I'm glad we finally agree :) , now hopefully SOE will do something about it!
  7. Bankrotas

    Yes, been giving it try from time to time, but reduced movement speed still kills it for me :/
  8. JonboyX

    Hmmm. This is such a cynical sales exercise it beggars belief.

    Shotgun users have not dissimilar TTKs to the NC max; they just don't have as much armour. So is it armour that's the problem, or is it overly powerful guns? Or is it neither; but flamethrowers are out soon?

    If I pull my NC max, which has one default Scatter and one purchased Hacksaw, 500 * 2 certs on each for the extended clip, 1 * 200 for slugs on the scatter arm, 2000 certs in the nanoweave, 1500 in the anti-flak, 1500 in the (utterly rubbish) self-repair, 40 in charge, 2000 ish on the aegis shield, and probably around another 1500 certs in the timer, then 100 infantry resources and a 5 minute wait each time I want to use one along with a friendly engineer to support me.... then yep, I expect it to EXCEL at shotgun ranges. No, I DON'T expect an infantry player to be able to escape, otherwise what good am I?

    Yes; I do expect to almost instagib an infantry class at point blank range (assuming no no-damage bugs). Just like a direct hit from any vehicle's weapon is an instagib (chain gun excepted). If you run across an open field, you're fair game for a good spanking from a vehicle. If you run around blind corners without checking/flashing/anti-vehicle/smoke/normal grenade/radar dart then you should be fair game to shotgun users.

    Same goes for enemy maxes; if I use my shield intelligently but you refuse to lockdown/toggle zoe ... what's left to say?
  9. Goretzu

    The idea of the shield is fine (good even).

    It just needs to be made fit for purpose:

    - it needs lenghtening to cover the feet and block ground based AOE from the front.

    - it probably need curving or wrapping around the MAX a bit (like so - \______/ ) to cover the sides a bit to make up for client-side hit detection - so when you think the shield is pointing straight at the enemy he sees you with it pointing off to the side and just fires
    into your side.

    - Sort out the crouching return fire issue, where enemies can fire over your head at friendlys behind, but friendlys hit you when they fire back.

    Again I'm a big dumbfounded they are nerfing NC AI MAX before fixing this stuff.
  10. Venomoroth

    1. Many weapons have horizontal recoil from left to right. I want to see how anybody can compensate this 750 times per minute. This is just impossible

    2. Recoil is PER BULLET. So if a weapon needs more bullets to kill (like TR does compared to most 167/200d/b NC weapons), then you will also have more overall recoil.

    as i said again: your bad knowledge of this game and generall empire-wide grade f maths make people like you think that there's something like "skill" needed to master your weapons. the truth looks different.
  11. Chewy102

    Recoil and RPM is comparable to the effects of low and high FPS. The lower your FPS the worse you are going to be in controlling anything from the need of sharp sudden inputs and the higher your FPS the better your control will be thanks to seemingly fluid motions. Same with low RPM recoil and high RPM recoil. But in PS2 the low RPM weapons tend to have higher recoil per round and high RPM weapons tend to have lower recoil per round so that adds to the effects of just RPM and recoil.

    Anyway, I got another video done.

    AF-23 Grinder

    134*6 @5m, 50*6 @18m, looses 6.46 damage per pellet per meter.
    4.3 long reload, 3.4 short reload
    180 RPM, 3 RPS, 6 dual RPS

    MAX v MAV
    0m, 13 shells
    13 * (134*6) = 10,452
    0 misses
    13 / 6 = 2.16 TTK
    10,000 / 2.16 = 4,629.62 DPS

    10m, 22.33 shells
    22.33 * (101.7*6) = 13,625.76 - 10,000 = 3,625.76 missed damage
    3,625.76 / 101.7 = 35.65 missed pellets / 6 = 5.94 shells missed
    22.33 / 6 = 3.72 + 4.3(reload) = 8.02 TTK
    10,000 / 8.02 = 1,246.88 DPS

    20m, 76.5 shells
    76.5 * (50*6) = 22,950 - 10,000 = 12,950 missed damage
    12,950 / 50 = 259 misses pellets / 6 = 43.16 misses shells
    76.5 / 6 = 12.75 + (4*4.3)(reloads) = 29.95 TTK
    10,000 / 29.95 = 333.88 DPS

    30m, Failed to kill with entire ammo pool.
  12. Purg

    It would be nice if you could run with it at the expense of it exposing a little more of yourself.
  13. Hibiki54

    Either you're smoking something everyone else wants, or you just need to learn how to play. Clearly you do not have any idea of what you are talking about.
  14. HeIIsing

    I would trade my NC anti inf gun against the VS anti inf gun without hesitation. Inside the Bio Lab the NC MAX is quite well. But right now the number of people stupid enough to jump right infront of you is nearly gone. Please dont flame, just try to kill someone with these ''overpowered'' MAX Scatters/Hacksaws'' 5 yards away....its like shooting with cotton candy
    OK nerv the shotguns
    give us some midrange weapons
    and the VS and TR Shotguns as well
    after that you wont see scattermaxes any longer
  15. Goretzu

    Nice stats and videos again. :)
  16. MrForz

    1) Infantry soldiers are going to see you too.
    2) If they wield a pump action shotgun, they're going to kill you with 1-2 shots too.
    3) We're all stuck with weapons of the same sype with little to no difference except very slight chances to effective damage which isn't going to matter because it's going to be nerfed to ****.

    I mean, why the **** are you people complaining about a close range only MAX being deadly at close range? You want the goddamn shotguns take them, I'll pick your blueshifts in a flash and spray my way everywhere I go while remaining in mostly safe spots instead of getting stuck indoors, exposed to lethal danger with the ability to kill two or maybe 3 people depending of their level of ******edness before being useless for 4s.

    I'm pretty sure the lot of you do know that, you do know it. But the nerf request seems to be more about getting us to be easy kills because you can't be bothered to find the answer in the 2+2 equation.
  17. Vortok

    The shotgun nerfs, with the stated goal basically being "rewarding bad accuracy less," would make more sense if the pellet spread and/or cone of fire got tightened, but I didn't see anything in the notes about those... so it just looks like a nerf.

    NC MAXs are still quite good, but they aren't -that- scary these days. Not sure where this change is coming from.
  18. Tristan

    AI max vs AI max damage needs to be reduced, anyway. Make the AV maxes more worthwhile against other maxes.
  19. Chewy102

    That worked in PS1 from MAXes not taking any small arms damage. You had to use an AV weapon for change to AP ammo to hurt a MAX. Without doing the same in PS2 then being a MAX hunter MAX using AV weapons would be most likely taken out by infantry or even the MAXes it is hunting before doing much good. Iv used dual extended Mattocks to kill a dual Fracture MAXes a few times. Hurt like hell but I did it when they came into shotgun range like idiots.
  20. Chewy102

    Well, GU11 happened and I can feel the changes. Haven't had time to finish the other 5 videos yet and now I got 4 more. Yeah! /s

    For real now. The lower damage hurts in point blank and getting just 2-3 meters more range before damage starts to drop looks to be **** at first. But my Mattocks felt better, and they only got a 2m shift in drop off range (then 8m-28m, now 10m-30m) and lost 20 damage per pellet while limp. That looks like a flat nerf, yet they now feel like a ******* weapon! I might have just had a lucky day or the extra FPS I got from another settings tweak, might have just been me looking for something. Can't say just what for real other than the feel.

    Do I need a video for everything or can you guys trust me to pull the math without videos? I can record and do all the math in under a day. What kills me is the time it takes to edit and upload. If I can just skip the editing and uploads till I have time and be trusted for the math then I might be able to have the numbers and math tomorrow or Saturday if I don't **** off.

    So, please?:D