Anyone else sick and tired of Rocket Pods?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Puukainais, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. Leftconsin

    Back on the Star Wars Galaxies forums it was a popular pastime to necro threads that were exactly one year or two years old. People would then continue posting in it for a page and a half before anyone figured out what had happened. :D

    OH, and on topic, I love me some rocket pods. I just had a 22 and 17 kill streaks with the thing an hour ago.
  2. z1967

    This thread is so old I think it just asked for someone to pass the prune juice.
    • Up x 3
  3. Obstruction

    the important thing here is to witness the birth of the forumside whiner's nerf. it's like hearing the opening strains of a great symphony while knowing ahead of time that you're hearing the first iteration of a theme that will actually define whole movements of the piece in the hours to come.
    • Up x 1
  4. Thornefear


    This.

    Hell even in a Valkyrie, AA is not that much of a threat, I can usually get behind cover. I'm more worried about small arms fire.
  5. zaspacer

    That's 3 different topics, just on the first page:
    1) Sniper can't setup camp spot without roaming ESF sniffing them out and killing them.
    2) Rocket Pods too good vs. too many targets.
    3) Air too hard to kill.


    Topic #1: ESF counters Sniper Camp Spot
    ===============================

    ESF countering Sniper Camps is one reason why I stopped playing Infiltrator/Inafntry (but just one reason). I learned how to fly, and now I fly ESF almost full time now.

    First off, ESF is one of the few counters to extreme range Snipers. You have ESFs and enemy Snipers as counters really, maybe Harassers in some cases. Other than that, nothing really threatens most extreme range Snipers. Most players are quick to hate and complain about units that counter them, but take out those counters, and the Scissors-Paper-Rock game breaks down.

    Second, most ESF pilots don't really get big rewards for killing Snipers. They do it because it's easy *if* they have an AI Nosegun, Rocket Pods, or Hornet (if they just have an A2A Nosegun, it can get very complicated). Making it harder for ESF to kill Sniper would not really hurt ESFs that much, but again, it would make Snipers much more effective and annoying for many Sniper victim players, and units without counters is definitely a HUGE area where PS2 has problems.

    Third, it gets MUCH worse for a Camping Snipers when the ESF is running Scout Radar. And those ESF with Scout Radar *do* rely somewhat on killing Snipers and other various Infantry on the fringes for their XP (since that is what their Loadout is built for). For now, Fire Suppression is so AMAZINGLY powerful vs. other choices (like Scout Radar), that almost every experienced ESF Pilot uses Fire Suppression. But if Fire Suppression ever loses its edge, and more players start running Scout Radar, the Sniping game will be over.

    Fourth, you could add things like "Implant: Anti-Thermal - Unit does not show up on Thermal radar, like the Infantry Targets in VR". This would have a big impact on reducing the visibility of Snipers.


    Topic #2: Rocket Pods too good vs. too many targets
    ========================================

    Rocket Pods are good vs. Infantry and ok vs. Vehicles. In contrast, Hornets are good vs. Ground Vehicles and ok vs. Infantry. But the main use of Rocket Pods is vs. Infantry.

    Take a look at the stats:
    http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (sort by ESF)
    http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthly-vehicle-deaths/ (sort by each vehicle separately, look for Rocket Pod or Hornet in Top 14 causes of death list)

    What you see is that Rocket Pods and Hornets get most their kills on Infantry. Hornet is the only ESF Weapon that gets decent Ground Vehicle kills, and that only ONE Vehicle has Hornet or Rocket Pod in their Top 14 causes of death: Hornet vs. 75-100 BR VS MBTs... and Hornet just makes that list in 14th place.

    You will also see that Vanguad Titan-150 AP and Prowler P2-120 AP actually DO dominate in being "too good vs. too many targets", but nobody is complaining about them. Except me. Vanguard Titan-150 AP shows up as a Top 14 cause of death for EVERY Ground and Air Vehicle in the game except TR ESF and VS Galaxy. Prowler P2-120 AP shows up as a Top 14 cause of death for EVERY Ground and Air Vehicle in the game except TR ESF and VS ESF. And they are effective vs. Infantry too.

    It's not just a question of if a Weapon can be used vs. more targets, but also if that Weapon is effective vs. those targets. ESF A2G vs. Ground Vehicles has been progressively nerfed over time. Hornets are very good for taking out MBTs. But other than that, ESFs are not putting up good performance vs. Ground Vehicle Targets.


    Topic #3: Air too hard to kill
    ====================

    Air is hard for solo players to kill. ESFs can be VERY hard for solo players to kill.

    Air is very easy for Certed up groups w/ Communication to kill. ESFs can be easy for Certed up groups w/ Communication to kill.

    This makes balancing Air very difficult. For solo players, they see Air as a nightmare. For Pilots, they see Certed up groups with Communication as a nightmare. As long as there is a big gap between solo (or casual group) and hardcore group players, this problem will continue under the current balance system.

    I suggest 2 things:
    1) giving ALL HAs a free Lockon-Launcher (G2A and G2G: Annihilator). This takes care of the Certed Up problem, and it leaves room for players to then "upgrade" to dedicated A2A Lockons with $. This will make a more level playing field in terms of access to AA, which makes it much easier to balance the game, instead of trying to balance Air units across battles with 0 AA to Crazy High AA.
    2) give all players access to public Communication Channels that they can choose themselves. One for each base (not people in it, but as the target location: just a channel anyone from anywhere can join), one for Air on each continent, one for Armor in each base/region, etc. Including option to stack multiple channels, see name listed when person speaks, mute anyone they want, etc. It would actually boost PS2 to the level of playability of every other multiplayer FPS out there, and it would be the other 1/2 of taking care of the gulf between solo (or casual group) and hardcore group players which is causing the problem of Air-vs.-Ground balancing.
  6. Jaquio

    This necro thread just reminds me of how bad it once was, and also why I stopped playing for over a year.
  7. Paragon Exile

    Dude.

    Why would you go so in depth with people who aren't even there to get your message?
  8. Leftconsin

    The original post lived in a long ago age where skyguards, dual burster MAXes, and lock-ons were much rarer than they are now. Nowadays it is genuinely hard to find even a 1-12 that doesn't have someone willing and able to spend nanites on AA weaponry.
  9. tf2hero

    [IMG]
    i seem to be doing this alot
    • Up x 2
  10. Dualice

    Haha. Nothing on this thread for two over two years, then bam, an ambiguous comment about a Reaver getting torn up by a Skyguard... there's life in the ol' girl yet.

    How do people even find these old threads?
  11. zaspacer

    1) I didn't notice it was Necrod. :p
    2) Of the issues raised, I still hear some being raised today (#2 and #3) and the other one is still valid today anyway (#1).

    It will live forever in the cloud.
  12. Waratorium

    Rocket pods aren't really that big an issue- by taking them on your ESF you sacrifice the ability to use missiles to fight other air or hornets to kill tanks, and a good burster max can drive off multiple rocket pod ESFs.

    For the moment, Banshees and Air Hammers are pretty superior to rocket pods, they just require a little more aiming in.
  13. TheKhopesh

    Oh god man, this thread was so dead even Hades forgot it existed...


    Rule #3 man, don't bring threads back from the dead.
    It's not a pretty picture, and we don't like you doing it.

    • Up x 1
  14. IshanDeston


    Some of us are, even if we are slow to respond - holidays and all.


    Actually the Skyguard was a lot weaker back then, but dual burster stronger (mostly because they didn't render that well for the pilots, they were later changed to be vehicles) and lock-ons came out after that post, at least mine, if i remember correctly. Back then, finally getting a lock-on felt like you could actually breath a little.

    Air spam was much stronger, as well... but maybe it just feels that way in retrospect, since after all those years, i've actually gotten better at dealing with it :D

    But for the first couple months after release it was unplayable as infantry. You'd just be shelled into oblivion. When they finally got the skyguard buffed a little, i was jumping at it... it gave no exp, it was just a matter of spiting the damn ESF back then. :D


    You've replied to a 2 year old Topic. I am not going to read into it, to get accustomed to what the discussion was 2 years ago, i have a good guess, based on the Quoted post from me, but the situation was way different 2 years ago, than it is today.

    I am sorry you wasted all that effort in typing up the responses, but for the future, at the very bottom of the post, there is a small line saying when the post was made. In this case November 28th in 2012.
    • Up x 1
  15. DG-MOD-02

    Please do not bring VERY old threads back to life. Thank you!
    • Up x 7
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