Anymore Proof VS is OP?Seriously Enough is Enough

1. He (or the guy who made the vid) didn't compensate to show the natural recoil both weapons have, which is in fact identical in this case. Did you think a vid where a guy compensates for the recoil would make for a good recoil comparison? I don't want to be rude but that line alone should exclude you from any and all discussions on what is OP or not.

2. The TR have the same advantage in the carbine class. The only faction that got shafted in this regard is the NC. They have their two high ADS movement modifier weapons in the AR class where both the VS and TR have one, too. On top of that the NS-11a is available to everyone.

3. The Orion is better than the CARV when it comes to hip fire. It is, however, equal to the MSW-R and it could be argued to which TR gun the Orion should be compared. To the CARV because they are the starter weapons? Or the MSW-R because it is the TR equivalent to the Orion? No matter what, if you hip fire either of them you are a doing it wrong. There are other LMGs specifically designed for hip fire.

He doesn't make it sound any more amazing than you make it sound amazing to have half the reload times. Saying that double the mag is useless and half the reload time is great is just a matter of opinion. If you don't like big magazines but crave for low reload speeds you are probably playing the wrong faction. That has nothing to do with something being OP or not.

All weapons are accurate. If you are unable do land the first 10-15 bullets of any LMG, AR or carbine of any faction in an almost pin-point shot grouping at 20-30m you need to work on your recoil compensation. Also, the CARV is just as accurate as the Orion in ADS mode. Bullet drop doesn't matter until you fight at long ranges of around 80+ meters and, again, for those ranges neither the Orion nor the CARV are designed.

"Once I attack 5 guys with my Orion I am screwed. So lets do that constantly and blame the weapon..."

Seriously, if you know that there is a 5 second reload timer coming: How hard can it be to account for that? If there are so many enemies around you that you die while reloading after pumping out 100 bullets the Orion guy will be dead, too. There are plenty of decent TR players out there who know when it is time to withdraw a little to reload and that point in time is not the moment your weapon makes *click click*.

Finally some damn common sense... such a rare sight these days...

Well like I said...Your opinion doesn't mean much when you think aiming with cross hairs is not aiming...

You make it seem as if crosshairs don't exist.

That pretty much told me about your knowledge on HA/Weapons thus your opinion regarding the ORION/Carv don't matter if you can't understand the simple Hipfire concept.

How will I fix the issue?

Ill speak for the Infantry Weapon issue because this where I specialized at.


Overall less RoF for all VS weapons.,,,,Orion should be 690-705 RoF.

Give the ORION overall more ammo, not higher ammo clips.

No more speed buff for ADS strafing when it comes to the ORION or other LMG's.



Im just trying to make TR unique again with high RoF.....sticking with what made Planetside 1 great.

Im not sure if I can believe his findings...After all the guy thinks aiming with cross hairs ins't a valid tactic and isn't aiming....I don't believe his results.

2. That is True that TR Carbine has an advantage in that...Difference is that HA is the most powerful Infantry class, so the HA which has shields, also has a speed buff?....yeah that isn't OP at all.

I wouldn't mind VS carbines and NC having some sort of speed buff to this too.....but HA doesn't deserve these kinds of speed buffs.

3. Equal to the MSW?.....lol.....

First of all the MSW shouldn't be compared to the ORION......The MSW has the advanced laser sight, if anything it should be compared to the VS polaris because the polaris also has the advanced laser sight....Not to mention the fact the ORION is free.

Anyways I tried the MSW and ORION....I think the ADS speed buff makes the ORION was better, as for hip firing is a toss up but I feel that the ORION has an edge even if the MSW has smaller cross hairs because of advance laser sight..

lol @ the MSW not design for Hipfiring.....the gun has advance laser sight, thats what it is for.....but please tell me what TR LMG is designed for hipfire?......ORION is a great hipfring weapon as well.

I played TR because I thought we had high RoF weapons when in fact VS has pretty much the same RoF weapons as us but with better accuracy......

I mention the fast reload times because they are sweet, these people make it sounds as 100 rounds is amazing.....I wouldn't have a problem with their reload times if their guns didn't have the same RoF as TR.

I don't get the "noob is hipfiring" opinion either.
Take Counter Strike for example. There is NO ADS in this game, everything (well, except for snipers) is "hipfired".

The first person to tell me Counter Strike is a lowskill game where you spray your opponents down gets a cookie.

Your personal killing experience with the weapon does not constitute a valid test, argument, or any sort of proof of anything other than your targets died. Which is great, that means the weapon is working.
There are too many uncontrolled variables:
availability of targets
your skill level proportionate to targets
specific circumstances and limited sample pool

Also what you fail to realize is that YOUR OPINION is not ANY LESS BIASED than anyone else that PLAYS THIS GAME. I highlighted the important parts with caps for you.

Without getting too much into it, I'd like to point out that population does affect results. If you join an underpopulated faction you will have, what is called, a target rich environment. I know zerglings have no idea what its like to be able to spray out a door and kill someone, but it has nothing to do with the weapon and everything to do with the number of willing faces there are to catch your bullets.

I do agree that there is probably not a disproportionate number of skilled players on a faction, but there is a difference in the overall number of players - and if you're on the zergs side then you probably picked up all the rats that fled the sinking ship(s) and your rats never left.
Stacked teams get less kills overall. Welcome to fps gaming.

Play some other class, and I might take you seriously.

Actually I was alone at Zurvan.....little to no friendlies helping and I was moving around looking for enemies....No camping at all.


Yeah I know I dont have any proof of this but it is what happened.

My experience means something to me and I just wanted to share my findings because Im very experienced when it comes to HA.



My experience is sure as hell more valuable than some guy who thinks hipfiring with crossfire isn't Aiming...Ill tell you that.

I would if I had OP scythe and OP Magrider.

i'm also sick and tired fighting VS due to the imbalance. Tho NC needs a little buff, they seem to be a little underpowerd incomparsion to TR, anyhow VS is seriously OP

You know, if the Vanu really wanted to prove that their faction isn't OP, they're just good players, how 'bout they join the NC? After all, a pro player who can perfectly manage the NC's guns is the most effective soldier in the game. Surely with their 1337 skills they should be able to **** everyone with the SAW? Wouldn't they want that? Wouldn't that prove their skill?

Of course they wouldn't, because then they'd have to put some EFFORT into aiming and their tanks couldn't sidestep every rocket fired at them.

ADS is no skill, it's just a way to reduce the spray. If CS had had that, people would have used it to great effect. Thus people using hipfire at ranges where ADS would be more beneficial, might be considered noobish. Coming from CS I had quite a few problems understanding the crosshair/aim/spray pattern/hipfire/recoil compensation/bullet travel time/bullet drop stuff in planetside and I will probably never like it, as CS was pretty much pinpoint accuracy compared to planetside. But CS was competetive play, planetside is casual. I'd probaby kill for a weapon handling like the AK in CS 1.6 in planetside tho. Oh and also without bullet travel time please.

If you only play one empire you should not even participate in discussions like this about balance, because nearly EVERYONE who only plays one empire thinks most of what they have is underpowered and most of what the other empires have is OP, it is just the human nature of the grass is greener on the other side.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=deadlysmurf

http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=imnuktam

there are the stats of my nc (main) and vs (alt) . As you can see, there is not much difference over the long run. Both empires have strengths and weaknesses. Love the Vs La/Eng weapons, Nc HackMax rules ect. Find your empires strengths and play into them, know your enemies weaknesses and exploit them.

Just to add fuel to the fire though, here is a vid of me and a buddy grabbing a base and some tr being abused by the serpent which is one of the highest rate of fire weapons in the game, and the reason I love Vs Light assault. Start killing them around 4min and end with the grenade kill.

I'd give you my ability to spawn a prowler for your VS reflex sights.

I agree, best reflex sites in the game. Reminds me of the eotech exps3 i have on my scar 16s.

Look up to my post a couple above this and you will see many of us do play them both and both equally well, in fact my nc Deadlysmurf has a marginally better ktd ratio over my vanu Imnuktam.

Who cares what he believes? He took both guns, pulled the trigger and they have the same recoil. It's right there on video. You will dismiss that just because he doesn't share your view on whether or not hip-firing is a valid practice?

That's not what OP means. Sometimes I wonder if people on the internet have to pass a test to be allowed in which consists of adding words like "overpowered", "noob" and a handful of random FOTM memes to their vocabulary. OP would be a weapon with 1500 rpm, 350 damage per hit and no travel time. OP is something that everyone uses because it is, without contest, virtually or absolutely unbeatable. What we are talking about here are merely minor differences. Yes, the ADS movement speed multiplier is a noticable difference and I would like to see all factions have the options to pick a weapon like that in every weapon class, but it is hardly making anything OP. A weapon that makes you move a tad slower while ADS'ing maybe gets you killed in 1 out of 100 cases. Objectively, for a talented FPS player, everytihng in this game moves in slow-motion. If you can aim at a guy who moves at half his normal speed while ADS'ing you can aim at one who moves at 3/4 of his normal speed just as well. If you can't and this difference becomes your downfall all the time, this is where your limits as a player are. If things like these constitute the collective notion of the VS being ridiculously OP I don't really know what to say.

Anyways, what do you care about ADS speeds? You said you hip-fire only and you don't lose any speed at all while doing that...

Your argument revolved around hip-firing. The MSW-R is in fact at least equal to the Orion in that regard.

Correct, they shouldn't be compared. Just as the CARV and Orion shouldn't be compared in hip-firing because one would pick the designated hip fire weapons for that anyways, which are indeed the MSW-R and the VX29 Polaris. Both of those have their strong points and weaknesses. As you ascertained for yourself that the 100 rounds of the Polaris don't really matter and the slightly lower recoil characteristics on the Polaris, which hardly matter at hip-fire distances anyways, are made up for by the higher rate of fire of the MSW-R. So?

What you think is completely irrelevant when it comes to balance. If we were to balance a game based on what people think and feel, oh boy, that would be quite entertaining. We can either assume the spreadsheet data is correct and base off of that, or we can wait until SOE releases definite and official numbers, or we can stop talking about these things at all as soon as claims like "A is better than B because, well, it feels like it!" are raised.

I never said the MSW-R wasn't designed for hip-fire. But I wasn't very clear on it, I guess. I was talking about the Orion and the CARV. The MSW-R I threw in there because it is the closest thing to the Orion for the TR stats-wise.

Sigh. Apart from the AR's, where the VS do indeed have a slight advantage both factions are almost identical. Here are the average recoil values from another thread:

VS LMGs: 0.38
TR LMGs: 0.375
- - - - -
VS ARs: 0.23
TR ARs: 0.285
- - - - -
VS Carbines: 0.286
TR Carbines: 0.305

First shot recoil modifiers are equally similar and bullet drop doesn't matter at ranges below 80m or so. Also, you have the highest rate of fire overall. Not by all that much and I can understand that it might not be emphasized enough for some people, but you still get to choose between several high rate of fire weapons in each class while the VS guns that compete in terms of rate of fire have few to no alternatives.

I understood that the first time. It is still merely your opinion. If you like fast reload speeds over large magazines go roll VS. If you have already sunken 200 euro or dollar into the game before you knew what is what then deal with the consequences.

That is probably deduced from the fact that, when you compare standing ADS and standing hipfire, the base COF for the CARV (example) is 10 times as big while moving (4 instead 0.4) and 30 times as big when still (3 instead of 0.1). Without saying it directly translates, which I can't because I don't have insight on the exact mechanics behind the gun functions, that is a numerical difference of 1000% and 3000%. Not knowing how much this is reduced by laser sights gives grounds to speculations on it's overall effectiveness if applied on a wide spectrum of situations.

Comparing this to CS is not really viable because, as you already mentioned, there is no ADS in CS. If there was and the numbers would speak along the same lines, then people would use it in CS, too.

Every time i killed TR:


Every time i killed VS:

Simple even for your IQ bracket ...
Steps :
- Roll a toon on Woodman
- Check yourself those "numbers" i'm making up ...
- Profit

Just quoting this as it seems somewhat useful.
The challenge results pretty much had something like 8 VS wins, 4 NC wins, 1 TR win per challenge.
We don't hear TR say anything.
Then NC cries about how they're underpowered (but don't look at the challenge results! Those don't mean anything!) and, at the same time, how overpowered VS is (because just look at those challenge results!).

Personally I prefer the NC weapons and vehicles more than the other two factions (they feel like they have some punch behind them, you know? But TR and VS guns feel like pea shooters), but I can no longer play NC as I refuse to be associated with... *that*.