Anti Air partisans - A global invitation

I havent read the entire thread, only the first page, but my 2 cents....

Skyguards are "adequate" for their role and aircraft are not necessarily OP. The problem i feel lies in the fact that AA in planetside 2 is simply not particularly fun or rewarding. When I think of an AA type vehicle, I think of the german Wirbelwind or the infamous Russian Shilka. These things were not only pretty damn good at killing low-flying aircraft because of the sheer amount of DAKKA they could put out, but were also terrifying against infantry. They had their own aura of awesomeness to them despite being designed for AA guard duty.

The skyguard? Well... its alright i guess, i will temporarily scare most pilots away and kill the more inexperienced ones. But who plays Planetside to "deter aircraft"? If im going to be in a vehicle that can only deter aircraft, i need to be able to either also be an infantry killing machine, or be able to change my weapon without pulling an entirely new tank, because when the aircraft inevitably leaves the area, I am stuck with a largely uselesss tank until they decide to come back.

Most players would rather just redeploy elsewhere, or stay inside a building, or otherwise not pull AA duty. And unfortunately, the AA rockets arent much better with unreliable and boring lock-on mechanics. AA, like other aspect of PS2, relies on numbers. you need more than 1 skyguard or AA rocket launcher. But good luck finding people who want to dedicate to that role for very long, becuase its not nearly as exciting as being a pilot, MBT tanker, or ifnantry player.

But you're comparing two different things.

Look, I'm a engineer / electrician / physicist. I've done a lot of experiments, built stuff relying on stats. BUT it was never stats without details, commentary, described experience, different sets of data. AND my own experience and knowledge.

My point is that stats alone aren't really useful. And such are stats of Planetside 2. Trying to analyze the stats you AREN'T able to see so many details and understanding of many ingame mechanics. And if you are not a pro in the area that stats are for - they are TOTALLY useless to you.

What is comparing the stats worth when you don't know an average skill of a user? When you start comparing stats from usage of low-skill players (skyguards) to much more skilled players (esf pilots), the "facts" that you get are completely false. Put a skilled aimer in a Skyguard and he's gonna wreck ESFs (compared to deterrence that people complain about).

A bit off topic:

It's the same situation with Tomcats. Tomcats are OP, but Demigan or ColonelHinges did the same couchsitting with it, pulling stats, "proving" it's not a good weapon. However the experience tells me that the ones who use tomcats are BAD pilots. Tomcats now have worse stats because when bad pilots with tomcats meets much better pilot (the one who relies on nosegun), better pilot wins. What makes Tomcats OP is that "much better pilot" must be TIMES better than the baddie with lock-ons.

I hope you got the idea.

There's also the fact that no matter how good you are, reverse maneuver+ tomcats= you can't get close fast enough, and tomcats win. Broken OP in the hands of a good player.

I came here for hyperbole, wall-of-text quote arguments, and a lack of common ground.

I was not disappointed.

PS, my double Walker Sunderer and Vulcan Harasser think AA is serious business

i don't think anyone is saying libs are "vulnerable." what we've said a lot however, is that we're being shot at and chased by everything, all the time.

situational awareness and evasive skill will allow you to mitigate some of the damage and stay out of extreme danger most of the time. yet, the next encounter is always seconds away and landing to repair every time you're hit by flak, basilisks, walkers, or passing ESFs, from 800-1000m is not practical. NAR helps ensure that you are at or near 100% for major encounters, which is much more important than some small % resistance increase against a couple of possible sources of damage.

you make a lot of arguments about how people load out libs, but you're obviously very inexperienced to the point that it should honestly be described as ignorant. your ignorance on the topic could fill pages of explanation that i don't think any of us are really willing to write.

for example, you spend like 150 words talking about AP shells, but tanks only get to hit you if you weren't aware of them in the first place, and never hit you more than once because you evade and reposition once they do. so they basically get kills when they crest a hill and see you down low, damaged. that's it. a real lib team is rarely killed by AP shells. it's just that simple.

and that's just a couple of examples. your posts are full of stuff like this, and you need to stop writing them.

Double Walker+ Deploy shield = unfreakingkillable

Actually, we run blockade, but that's the basic idea.

Ah, I don't care for blockade. Well, you can make it really hard to kill or impossible depending on the terrain. But if you have deploy shield, it IS impossible. Even if I can appear right above you. A maxed deploy shield has more life than half of the sunderer. It takes the whole 42 Tankbuster bullets at close range to take it down regardless of where you hit. It's insane.

the weakness is that they can't resist firing on a lib. so you do a pattern run against them with a racer while your team is gal dropping sappers or whatever. but yeah it's really strong, even without relevant support. with just an ammo tower and dedicated reppers it's pretty beast, but as part of a column it's basically just unapproachable.

but hey, we're here to talk about how a guy gets killed alone in the open in his MBT and then pulls a no-upgrades skyguard from the same base. we're here to talk about wrong decisions and social justice, not banter about actual working solutions that create mutual challenge and enjoyable counterplay.

I shouldn't be giving them any more ideas D: Alright.

For those who have read thus far:

THE INVITATION IS STILL THERE, COME TRY MY LIB!

my problem with air and anti air is that everything seems imbalanced (for everyone involved)

when the numbers are low in the area you are fighting in the odds are you wont have enough anti air to be able to fight off any aircraft as they can easily do their hit and run attacks and just brush off the AA attacks and constantly pound anything in the area

yet when any air try to attack a big battle (96vs96) then the odd of them surviving are quite low as the AA and other aircraft will probably knock them out of the sky unless they play cautiously

most ground vehicles dont have much of a defence against air, sure you can try and shoot it with your main cannon but any worthwhile pilot wont attack at an angle they can get shot at, you can attach a walker but then you are much weaker against other ground vehicles
you can go a skyguard and be useless to everything but air - so when the aircraft goes away you are stuck with a vehicle thats completely useless

the only real reliable way to beat air is........ to go an aircraft yourself

aircraft can setup themselves to be able to attack both air and ground AND infantry with one loadout which makes them good at everything (rotary nose cannon and rocketpods for example there are others) except if its a big battle

so when air attacks air - air wins
so when air attacks vehicles - air wins
when air attacks infantry - air wins
if its a decent sized battle - they usually lose at everything

MBT - mostly only good at ground targets, can give up secondary slot for weak AA gun 450 resources
skyguard - only moderately good at AA, useless at everything else 350 resources
walker sunderer - good at aa, will get totally smashed by everything else 200 resources
ESF - great in smaller to mid sized battles/sucks in big battles, can destroy vehicles infantry and air with one loadout, fast enough to get away from most anti air before they get destroyed 350 resources
liberator - can wreck just about anything, easily kills infantry/ground vehicles and with enough speed to escape when damaged, can possibly kill a single ESF or maybe 2 at a time if they good/lucky, usually gets wrecked by 3 or more ESF 450 resources

imo the whole vehicle/air/infantry dynamic is totally screwed in this game between all involved

you forgot:

Infantry: 15 second respawns, rapid redeployment along lattice, to moving squad-owned air and ground vehicles, and to deployed spawns. can fire out of spawn shields with lock on weapons. able to man free, infinitely repairable AV and AA turrets at literally every base with range that often overlaps the range of multiple nearby bases. 0 resources.

so what is your point? the thread is about getting in this guy's lib to film, so you can show us all how easy it is up there.

Hell, I don't even mind not posting any recording or not recording at all. So long as they post in this thread how it went and if they learned anything.

for you folks out there
try my lib!

Well, still waiting for the video, and I only read posts saying
"No need to do that, I already know everything"

I bet 20 forumdollars that the result will be a vid farming infantery where nobody can be arsed to pull a damned G2A launcher and after 50 unopposed kills and the odd ESF trying to take the lib down it is declared OP.

I'm taking you up on this bet! I'm seriously thinking about starting a forumdollars currency...

Sure it's hyperbole, but the reasoning holds.
--
I actually like NAR on my lightning too (similar reasoning; don't get too stuck in, retreat & self-repair without getting out);
but other options do have a role.
--
Tankbuster vs skyguard: yep, at 200m.
I agree it is a stupid comparison, as the lib can fly forward and fire from 100m.
However

YOU put forth the premise.
It is a stupid premise indeed.
Kinda like a lot of what you post.
Seems like we can agree on the stupid part, although of course, even in your premise, you incorrectly assume the skyguard somehow has a massive HP & Damage advantage over the "short range" tankbuster.
--

AA is not entirely skill-less and can be evaded. Besides, I'm in favor of more "walker" AA, which at least requires direct aim vs a mobile target.

In what timezone do you live btw?

If you're taking me up for my lib offer, I'd be more than glad to. Though I'm about to go to sleep, so it shouldn't be expected until at least 6 hours from now.

Timezone is gmt -4 (4:30am right now)

Where did I say that? I said I had more experience.

So? How the hell am I supposed to find your main character if all that I can find of you is your forum handle? I then use your forum handle. This is all fair-game until you tell me otherwise, but that's no reason to feel like a wisecrack about it.

And i have about 15x the experience in AA than you got total. Great job! You just proved nothing.
Also, what's this jab to me about me statpadding? How do you come with that idea? How can you blame me for statpadding if you have no proof of it? You are just trying to make me look bad while you have nothing to prove it.

I don't usually analyse 1 vs 1 stats because they mean nothing, but since you started it I decided to prove you wrong on your own ground. I did.

Oh yeah, I played with ESF, I know what easy mode is as well!
See how neither your statement about Skyguards nor mine now hold any value? You can say "it's easy mode", just like people say the Vanguard is easy mode because of the "Iwin shield", while every statistic, every single one, points to the Vanguard being the worst MBT and that the shield is it's only saving grace to keep it somewhat competitive. Somehow I doubt you'll realize that your word against mine doesn't work and that statistics are the answer here, but I guess that's what you get when you deal with people who would rather go on their own exprience rather than that of every player in the game.

So, to quote someone: "What a fail your post is man"

Again, what does this prove?
First of all, it proves that you are trying to make me look bad by telling everyone I ram a cliff outside the warpgate whenever i go outside, even though you know nothing about how good I am as a Lib pilot, I might be able to kick your *** across every continent and then do it over again in a Lib. You don't know.
Second of all, you try to prove that AA is OP by using just one vehicle: the LIberator. I already explained that even if anyone does fail to use it properly that this doesn't mean anything. To prove that AA is OP, you need to use the AA.

AAAAAAAAAAlright. So you want to stat bash and use stats. Let's do it. Let's compare me to you.
Our respective profiles:
you: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Demigan
me: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/JawarisinNC

Alright, now let's go in it shall we? You are mainly ground from what we can understand. Great, let's look at the infantry-only. This won't even take into account my most used weapon because it's a cqc sniper!
Let's see.... My accuracy is higher.
My Head shot ratio is higher.
My IvI score is higher
my k/d is higher
just pretty much everything is higher.

Alright, BASR section,
everything is higher too... well I guess we saw that coming isn't it.

General information let's see:
I beat you in score per hour, accuracy, everything really. Except k/d in which case yours is superior by .2 on DA, and .09 on the official website. One might wonder, HOW on hell could of this happened? The answer is simple! if we look at your stats, we'll notice that you're a failing tanker with way below average stats in a tank. But it still nets you a 4.4k/d, effectively padding your stats up quite high.

The only weapon that both of us auraxiumed is the mkv, there's the cyclone at 800 kills but I don't think it would be fair since you didn't auraxium it.
so let's see:
____Your stat / My stat
k/d= 1.626 / 2.024
accuracy=32.362 / 32.859
HSR= 11.199 / 17.556
kills/hour= 47.2 / 118.6

And the final touch would be the one air weapon you've actually used, and on which you base your claim of "having good experience", the Air Hammer.
Well, I'll make it short on this one: I got nearly twice your k/d, higher accuracy, higher kills perhour, and higher vehicle kills per hour.



So why all this? Well two reason, you try to stat bash someone when you won't even dare taking me up on my offer.
And the second reason is this: your experience as far as air vehicle go has been mostly to crash in walls, or you get worst than infantry stats on them.
Your infantry stats are also bad, so I don't know what kind of experience you got there, but it clearly isn't working.

And as I pointed out, the only reason your k/d is something someone might look at and think you're good is because you've spent so much time in your tank (for which your stats are below average) that you managed to pad your stats upwards.

So you want to call OP on a vehicle that requires skill, and that you've clearly never used except to crash into cliffs. While someone with sub-par stats can somehow pad their stats high enough using a tank even with below average stats in said tank for him to get his head big enough to come and try to stats bash other players.

In conclusion, to go back on what you said:

Yep, I just proved it!

I think whatever you call "easy mode" is doing worst than infantry?

And yet, with sub-par stats with it, you managed to pad....

and now the cream of the cream:

What a grand statement.

Well well, mr amazing pilot here. Why don't you show us? I've kept asking for you to show us "How good of a lib pilot you are, and how easy it is"