Anti Air partisans - A global invitation

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Jawarisin, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. Halkesh

    AA need a rework / buff, not on it's effectiveness against airplane, but because it's boring to do AA job and because airplane aren't fun to fight.

    You play peacefully when suddenly an airplane come and annihilate you. Even if you aren't surprised, you can't dodge the attack and die.
    You take a HA with anihilator, the airplane laugh at you and kill you.
    Then you decide to take a skyguard / MAX.
    1. The airplane is gone, you've wasted your resource because skyguard suck at everything other than AA.
    2. You deal strong damage to the airplane, the pilot run away.


    AA should be reworked to feel more useful :
    improve effectiveness at close range (easier to kill airplane)
    don't be helpless against non-air threat
    reduce their effectiveness at longer range to compensate
    => remove flak and add more heat-seek-missile (coyote)
    • Up x 2
  2. quatin

    I don't think G2A will ever be "fun" compared to everything else you can do as infantry/vehicle. The most fun is to pull your own aircraft.

    This is the reason why SOE had previously mentioned that G2A will only be a deterrent. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any use pulling aircraft.
  3. Halkesh

    It's fun when you spawn an ESF and being destroy by ganksquad of 3-5 BR100 ? I don't think so.
    The problem is the G2A weapon can't kill aircraft except if the pilot do terrible misstake.

    Having a twin-barrel Walker skyguard would be far more fun than the actual boring one.
    Same for heat seeking RL unstaid of guided one.
    • Up x 2
  4. quatin

    I agree ESF balance is largely broken due to skill gap. However, SOE is hoping to fix that with newbie weapons like A2A lock ons. If we buff G2A, we are pretty much giving up on air.
    • Up x 1
  5. z1967

    I can dodge Skyguard shots a 300m in a mossie. At 1000m you will be predicting where your highly mobile enemy might (its never definite) be in 2.5 seconds. In that time:
    -An ESF can completely reverse directions, even with Racer
    -A Liberator can change its vector enough to screw up the Skyguard (yes, even by yaw)
    -You can yaw any craft 90 degrees, enough to screw up the Skyguard
    -Maybe place a single brick of C4, maybe...
    -Kill an AFK engineer 4 times with the Solstice Carbine (TTK is roughly .6 seconds)
    -and many more trivial things

    It actually takes a surprising amount of math (and luck, courtesy of the COF) to get 100% accuracy at this range. The average ESF will travel 250-300kph. Liberators are usually slower, at around 200kph. The steps to land perfect hits at range are:
    -find distance, either guesstimate or use rangefinder
    -identify target
    -do the math (175m for 250kph at 1000m, 207m for 300kph 1t 1000m, 140m for 200kph at 1000m)
    -aim the exact distance ahead of the target
    -shoot until either they change direction, you run dry, or they die
    -repeat until you become insane or die

    If my Python AP could OHK ESFs and had an 85/-15 traverse range I would never use the Skyguard again. Deterrent weapons are god awful in every way, shape, and form. The Skyguard is already weak against infantry and literally any armor vehicle (yes, even flashes...), now all it needs is to be super effective against air to make up for this. Add a SAM launcher, direct hit super damage ammo, or even a radar module of making shots more accurate and it will be enough.
    • Up x 4
  6. Halkesh

    I wish the skyguard would be a heavy-AA, it could do it's job, plus it won't be useless against infantry / tank.
    • Up x 2
  7. quatin

    Slightly off topic, but I feel like the skyguards problem isn't that it's not effective AA. It is. 1 skyguard pretty much denies an area of aircraft. The problem is, once the aircraft is gone, you have nothing to do. You didn't get any points for killing aircraft, because it's a deterrent weapon and you can't kill anything else.

    Instead, remove flak from the skyguard. Make it into a Walker/Vulcan type of deal, so it can plink at everything.

    Leave flak to MAXes, because when aircraft leave an area, MAXes can change their load out at a console.
  8. Jawarisin

    known overpowered weapon yeah
  9. Jawarisin


    what are you talking about? I'm basically offering them a fully certed lib to try out. How is that any close to default tools... I don't think you know what you're talking about
  10. Jawarisin

    same paragraph concept

    I would be the first to want that change. But as I said, ground AA players are in large majority casual players while the pilots are more hardcore players. If you put a skill test in there, people will cry even more about AA being UP.
    =====
    The everynow and then being once or twice a month, I'll pull it more often in a single hour than they will in a month. Me with a few other lib pilots will quickly turn the balance.
    Also let's remember all the solo lib. for .5s spent in dalton, they get a kill. but in reality there's way more going on. Heavy padding.
    =====
    I bet you I can kill something with a default MBT. And if you pull me a fully certed one, and you gun for me, we can kill many things. That's what I'm offering for the lib. Logically if it's SO overpowered, we should kill "something" right? I never spent any real amount of time in a tank as my stats show, but when I get in one, I still get kills.
    =====
    Yeah, but that lib will NEVER hit you. So what's the point? you will actually scratch him as will the 3 other sources of AA, making a combined damage quite good (remember aircrafts can't repair mid air, and don't point me to my own video). He won't even dent you.
    =====
    Link to that quote please, and if he did say that, well there's idiots everywhere. You can get more vehicle kills yes, but you can also get annihilated without even being able to land 1 shot. And getting many vehicle kills is NOT easy, NOT simple and NOT something you can just pull out of a hat. I can do the same with an LA, c4 fairying tanks, or an ap 2/2 MBT, I'll get multiple vehicle kills just fine.
    =====
    Yep, that's called the Decimator or any dumfire. Bursty that removes half of a lib or instagib an ESF. It's usefull only on close range, and hard to hit with. Sounds like the tankbuster isn't it?
    =====
    sky ceiling is higher, yes, not much to say there.
    =====
    Consider that a lot of those aircrafts died from other sources. 2 lock ons puts an aircraft on fire, something usually sweeps to steal the kill. But actually, I only got killed twice like that. Usually it's a tank or infantry that gets me while I'm looking at the sky. But even then, I'd say it worked pretty damn well, aircrafts usually pissed off for a while after eating a rocket.
    =====
    by the same logic, infantry is too strong against infantry.
    =====
    it is definetly the "average", but that's the "average pilot", not the "average player". The "average player' is sooooo low, most don't bother pulling aircrafts. "average pilot" is what you see.
    =====
    there's more ground than air...
    =====
    And no, AP shells and dumbfire are definetly up there in the chain. The thing is, in an aircraft, there's not 1-2 person looking at you, the whole place looks at you. So you don't get "1" dumbfire shot at you, you get ~5 with 3 lock ons and what'snot. If one of those dumbfire hits, you're usually dead. Tank shells are also flying everywhere on you. Come try libbing, you'll see that you get killed more often by AP tank shells than by most other things.
  11. Jawarisin


    every few seconds* But no, mostly the pilots are hardcore gamers, and AA are usuall casuals. Mind you there's hardcores in AA too, but in average..
  12. Jawarisin


    I'm not following that analogy at all, maybe because I'm tired a bit, but I think I know what you're trying to say. Here's what, come lib with me, and I'll come skyguarding with you.
    • Up x 1
  13. Jawarisin


    Most people never fly but still complain, I'm giving them an opportunity to fly a fully certed air vehicle, with the infamous tankbuster (The weapon with the highest DPS, omg omg must be so easy to get kills)

    That's basically it. Yes, enemy ESFs are something to watch out for. That's just another one of the many things air gotta watch out for, other aircrafts.
  14. Mootar

    Ground based AA is absolutely underpowered and always has been, it is an inconvenience that can be either killed, ignored or avoided by good pilots while giving up any effectiveness against any other enemy and still being ridiculously vulnerable to the thing it is supposed to counter.

    The only true AA in this game is other aircraft, everything else is a deterrent at best.
    When the only true counter to something is a better player using the same thing, then simple logic dictates there is a balance issue, people don't need to waste time playing with a random mouth breather to confirm what everybody has known since beta.
    • Up x 3
  15. Jawarisin


    Then once again, come in my lib, and show me how you can just destroy every single ground target.
  16. Shadowomega

    For temporary means the Skyguard should get its projectile speed increased to close to 650 to 700 m/s and its CoF adjust for 700 m ranges.

    Would do this till they add in new Ground based AA weapons.
  17. quatin

    I disagree. The best counter to a tank is still another tank. Other than that a horde of infantry with launchers and c4. Your still not stopping an armor column without your own armor column. If you could, there would be no point in tanks at all.

    Same thing with air. To promote air combat, the best counter to air has to be other air. Or else, why pull air to begin with. Also note that the same horde of infantry with g2a lock ons would still destroy any air.
  18. Mootar

    1) Who mentioned anything about destroying every single ground target? How is this relevant?
    2) What would me coming and playing with some random prove exactly? I am an average pilot at best and I have never once died to ground based AA and it not be my fault, how would me doing that on your server in any way change that?

    I tell you what, make a video of raw gameplay showing how secretly awesome the Skyguard really is, when you have done that I will happily log onto Emerald and show you why ground AA is underpowered in my own Liberator.

    Until then I think it is safe to assume you are a sh*tty pilot trying to justify his sh*ttiness after he got spanked hovering over an enemy base, I look forward to your Skyguard ownage video but I won't hold my breath.
  19. Mootar

    The best counter to a tank is aircraft, by a huge margin but tanks & infantry are also an effective counter.
    The ONLY true counter to aircraft is other aircraft.
    • Up x 2
  20. Jawarisin


    1) "it is an inconvenience that can be either killed, ignored or avoided by good pilots while giving up any effectiveness against any other enemy and still being ridiculously vulnerable to the thing it is supposed to counter." -You
    Then you should have an easy time wrecking everything in sight.

    2)I made the offer first, that's usually how it works, not the other way around. But I see that you know I'm right, so you're trying to find way to evade.