An M113 style APC in Planetside 2

Go home, Pikachu, you're drunk.

Valkyries have prove to be very useful for small unit tactics, for group who dont want to let everyone in the area know where they are spawning from, and for insertions into areas were a Galaxy is impractical. If you find the Valkyrie to be useless then you are just a terrible Valkyrie pilot.

My proposed vehicle is not redundant, that would require that another vehicle already does the job Im proposing it do. But there isnt one. A Sunderer or a Harasser cannot job this job due to their own limitations. Sunderers are too large, slow, and unmaneuverable while Harassers are too lightly armored, cant carry enough troops, and you cannot squad spawn into it.

I'm a great Valk pilot. I can keep one alive and get into and out of the hottest zones.

Doesn't change the fact I can do it better with a Gal, providing stronger fire support, taking MUCH more flak for friendly air to take less, or just camp at flight ceiling and let the squad hot drop onto any point with impunity.

OH BOY! I can precision drop 4-5 guys on an objective!?!? WOW THAT'S SO MANY PEOPLE IN A 96v96 FIGHT!!!!

It's only "purpose" is that it costs half as much for half the capacity... but you give up 3 times the firepower and 5 times the durability for it...

You don't even get speed! If at least it was faster, I could see it being a lil more useful for QRFs.

But go on, keep on assuming I know nothing about tactics when in actuality I'm just real about what's worth it and what isn't.

Valk is a good disposable transport. 150 req to transport 6 guys (bail as pilot cause screw that cert pinata) to a point is half decent.

For ground transport I'd NEVER use the APC over Sunderer... not when a sundy costs only 200 req and hauls *** (slow... hah! Someone has never seen a racer sundy battle bus) and capable of transporting twice as many with TONS of defenses.

Sundy isn't really even all that big. APC would need to be at least the size of MBT's which isn't that much smaller. Most of the places I can "sneak" an MBT I could do the same with a stealth sundy.

HELL! I'd use the Valk over the APC!!! I can skim the ground at 5m low enough to skim behind mountains and move faster than ground forces anyways.

And the entire purpose of this vehicle flys over your head again, plus your understanding of a Valkyrie shows that yeah, you have no idea the purpose of a Valkyrie. You are still equating my vehicle with real life even tho PS2 does not operate the same way. You are just trying to be a flaming tool.

You wouldn't fly a Valkyrie into a 96+ v 96+ fight because that fight is already underway. You'd fly a Valkyrie near the next base on the lattice so your squad can begin the assault before the main attack comes. But a Valkyrie is still very lightly armored and susceptible to enemy fire. Its not just there as a "cheaper" Galaxy.

This vehicle would allow you to move small teams into places a Sunderer cannot get, or could get but would quickly draw attention and fire. To move small teams ahead of main convoys (similar to the harasser, but more safely and allow that squad to spawn on it). And provide anti-infantry fire to those deploying from it.

It's simple... we nerf... the Sunderer.



Then you might want to use other things!

Lol, dont mention nerf to this Ronin guy. He might have an aneurysm finding out that the Sunderer isn't some perfect god vehicle. That there are jobs and roles that no current vehicles do very well. Even tho others have already called for sunderer nerfs.

You know you should never use a Valkyrie as a troop transport in a 96 v 96 fight?

might be better for balance but they'll need to refund everything for eveyone if it's no longer "battle bus" capable and instead a weak troop transport and AMS.

They could move AMS to a new vehicle, but that wouldn't create a purpose for this APC still.

Vehicles are intentionally multipurpose to save on resources. Every vehicle type requires more resources.

And there really isn't enough benefit in seperating AMS from the sunderer to make it worth the cost of dev time and additional system resources to support.

Well, it's not the best, but I've certainly done it.

If you're just using it to transport you and a few buddies from another territory into the area and drop on a point and dispose of it, it works fine.

As for "rapidly" going to other territories ahead of a mega fight, Galaxy can still go to those places, just as fast, transport more people, and be a HELL of a bigger PITA to the ground forces at the base as well.

The Valk is only cheaper, which really only matters if you're planning to dispose of it in a few minutes, and more available (though Galaxy terms are pretty prevalent now with tower terms)

It's also about 100x more fun to fly... so there's that.

Cost effectiveness though, only as a disposable transport.

It's 1 purpose. Which the Valk would continue to do better than the APC would ever do, and the only thing it could possibly ever do over a sunderer (and sundies are dirt cheap anyways)

Sod off. I actually wouldn't have a problem with overhauling the vehicle balance, but be real.

You think they're going to nerf bat the sundie?

No, they're not. They're not going to seperate the AMS. They've confirmed this many times. They're not going to increase the cost of the AMS. It needs to be spammable.

Does that leave us with a disproportionaly cost for power ratio ground vehicle? damn straight it does.

But it's the facts. Deal with it.

IF they seperated the AMS, and bumped sundy cost up to 400-450, then a cheap APC would have purpose as cheaper disposable transport like the Valk is to the Gal which is itself a not really worth the dev time it took.

Again, I have fun with the Valk, but it doesn't really add much to the overall game.

And that's the problem with this APC concept. It doesn't add anything of real value to gameplay.

I disagree, my proposed vehicle would be able to get the team to their destination without letting everyone know they are there, or getting quickly gunned down my AA or small arms fire. It would be more maneuverable than a sunderer, allowing it to more easily get to unexpected locations.

How its better than a Valkyrie: Doesn't have to worry about AA fire, more armored against small arms fire, better equipped for anti-infantry.

How its better than a Sunderer: Faster, more maneuverable, smaller target

I'm not trying to replace the Valkyrie or the Sunderer, would you get that out of your head? My vehicle addresses weaknesses in both without becoming something that is over powered.

Sundy can get most places without being noticed, and is pretty maneuverable really.

I know what you're saying, but we have to look at dev priorities, and this is no where NEAR what they need to be working on.

That's more my point than anything.

Dream world? Unlimited resources?

Sure, I'd see a place for this, cause why not?

But priorities man.

Like I said, I wouldn't waste time on the ES buggies either, but they at least promise to bring more faction flavor which has been lacking.

Dev priority has nothing to do with this. Im not saying "GET ON THIS AND MAKE IT RIGHT NOW GO GO GO". I dont care. All I've gathered from this convo is that you are an idiot who gets preconceptions in his head that do not meet up with reality

The sundy is a truck.

I think the sunderer needs a cosmetic remake and thats all. From wheeled to tracked, smaller frame, more mobile. Why use a wheeled vehicle in a planet with uneven terrain and the lack of raods? Poor creative decision... Only advantage to a wheeled vehicle is on road speed and ability to drive off with one or two wheels demaged - which in ps2 plays no difference either way.

It is sort of a similar dilema the soviets were dealing with in the 60s, after fielding BTR60s (wheeled apc), they realized it was not suitable for offraoding and ended up introducing the BMP (tracked IFV) and the APCs were given to second line troops

I'd go for a cosmetic remake the sunderer. Personally, I think the current battle van is ugly. It's blocky and top heavy. If they were to remake it into something a bit more sleek, with a lower profile, I wouldn't complain. You can find a myriad of imagines online for sci-fi APCs that are so much more interesting looking than the sunderer.

I think most major militaries field both wheeled and tracked infantry transports.

The US, for example, deploys the tracked M2 Bradley IFV:


But also uses the wheeled M1126:


Russia employs both the tracked BMP-3:


As well as the wheeled BTR-80 (an evolution of the BTR-60 that you mentioned):


China has their tracked ZBD-08:


But still fields wheeled ZBL-09s:


Generally wheeled vehicles can't carry as much stuff, but do have the advantage of moving faster than tracked vehicles. There still is quite a bit of space for them on the battlefield!

I remember long thread, where I defended the idea of cheap 6-man (up to 4 MAXes) light transport, something between PS1 deliverer and PS2 lightning: very low profile, fast, controlable, immune to small arms, single C4 puts it at fire, only 1 light gun (Kobalt/walker/basilisk). It was supposed to be ANT platform (ANT module blocks passenger and gunner seats) for Resource Revamp II and mini-sundy (no AMS) in general.
Discussion stopped after someone quoted devs: apparently they need 6 MONTHS to make single vehicle. I dont know how is that even possible to be that slow.
I remember wanting such veh when I end up on base after fight and there are 2-4 maxes who dont want to waste their skillsuits. I need to spawn Sundy to transport them and even with racers this clown car is so slow, prone to stuck in small holes plus super easy to notice and hit. If redeployside would ever get toned down, such veh would be in demand as safe and fast ride for small groups.

That's simple to explain - software development procedure. You don't just extrude any sort of mesh, slap on a texture, hack its code together, then throw it out the door without other people playing with it. At the very least, first you need to work time for it into a future sprint that may have already had some projected workload during the planning phase; and, then, everything else starts happening.