Am I the only one tired of instagibbing scat maxes

Hate saying...but that video shows nothing cause it was not the same player with the same latency etc. shooting. In one case it was from the victim...the other from the shooter(which obviously makes a difference). Then they only showed one attempt...and I ain't even sure how they really measured the time. Why do both videos state 5m...but the 5m in the first video seem to be much further away than in the second?
What have been the attachements of the Maxes? The videos are old(those numbers don't count anymore). The settings are non realistical(no obstacles that favor the NC Max burst-hide-burst style. No Shield to hide behind).
Last but not least the 5m one(from the first video) is the typical maximum fight distance for CQC...most fights happen in closer distance(like running right into the opponent). The 20m one(from the first video again) is like the maximum distance I would try with my blueshifts and I'd need like half my magazines for infantry there if I keep pressing the fire button.

Why TR by the way? We know they are second best. Try VS. ;-)

Yeah I also think it's a purely psychological problem. They get killed by something they don't have access to and then blame that thing, rather than look into how it really affects the game.

Take "grenade spam", oh it's sooooo bad... Yet grenades are nowhere to be seen in any killstatistics. The problem is that grenades are wonky and they kill suddenly, often with little warning. How often haven't you had a grenade blow up in your face and only saw the grenade-marker pop up after you already took the damage?
And this is a common theme with any weapon people complain about. Shotguns? Their lack of range force the user to sneak up and ambush people, giving that sense of "I got little to no warning so it's unfair". They don't notice that other weapons can do the same thing as most of the time they deal with the "fair" fights while shotguns have to be used in those surprise attacks. C4? Same "little to no time to react" deal. Snipers? People don't see the misses only the hits and feel they couldn't do anything against such a long-ranged target (and barely even notice if they get close and maul a helpless sniper). It doesn't matter if the weapon is in reality terrible, as long as they perceive it as unfair they think it is unfair.

Assuming you're talking about the first video? Please be specific.

If you're saying latency was a factor then you're confirming the difference between them is milliseconds. So TR maxes "instagib too" basically. They explain right in the video how they do the measurements.

And as far as the videos being old and the numbers not counting? Correct, they are old. Incorrect that the numbers don't count. The numbers are now WORSE for the NC Max today. They do show what attachments are on the NC Max. It's using extended magazines. Grinder shows 14 shot clip. Extended mags on those only do 12 today.

My assertion is that the NC MAX is not overpowered. The videos illustrate this. If you think otherwise, then show your own evidence.

If a VS MAx can kill you before the first hitmarker arrives then you got other things to worry about. Check your connection cause it's horrible. That might explain why you think your Max is not op tho. ;-)

Ehm? that's exactly what NC Maxes can do...but VS Maxes can't. If the Heavy or LA knows I'm there and I wait till he is closer then I just can't kill him before he drops his C4(unless I get lucky with just landing headshots. But that ain't so easy vs ADAD and Ambusher...with blueshifts). That's the problem. You can't fight them on long range and you can't fight them close up. You need to catch them somehwere in the middle in the open...and that means you got to rely on stupid opponents(you just don't stand in the middle of the room shooting at a target with several times your health. You wouldn't survive something like that against a scatmax either. By chance the first video didn't even show how long the sctamax needed on "20m"...they just claimed the TR is better but nobody knows by how much. According to you it shouldn't kill infantry at all at that distance.).

All I hear of you is that I can't aim...but seriously: You are the one that doesn't seem to be able to hit anything with a freaking dual shotgun. I got some auraxium on shotguns.... ;-)

Hmmm? What do I know about their settings and latency? They measure when something shows up...nobody(aside from you) said that with all the different settings, client side hit detection and so on it can only be a difference of milliseconds if you switch from the shooter to victim perspective.

No, they actually say what they measure...not how they measure.

I don't get your point. Those scenarios are unrealistic. Why should someone fight with a non slug max an other max on the open field with 20m distance and not move at all? Nobody ever does that. If I find myself as ANY Max in such a situation then I got to wonder if it ain't time to quit the game.
So even if all of that was true(and I actually am not sure it is, given how much their 5m seem to differ from one vdieo to the other) it's still a sandbox thing of the past and has no relevance for the battlefield today. Max vs. Max is anyway much less common than Max vs. infantry..and instakills belor 5m are VERY important vs. C4. You won't change that no matter how many old videos you bring up... ;-)

please get your quotes right, you are putting my name in quotes i had nothing to do with.

WHUT? First off, which video man? If you are going to nit-pick in this excruciating detail show some frickin' attention to detail yourself ok? I'm *guessing* you mean the first video where they say they measure from the flash of the first round to the start of a death notification. How they made that measurement I don't know. Probably some time related instrument rather than say a yardstick or something.

But the big point here: The difference between a TR MAX at point blank range and an NC MAX at point blank range is so small that it takes instrumentation to perceive what the naked eye cannot. You do get this part right? Don't be pedantic.

"Those scenarios are unrealistic". [Nicholas cage] You don't saaaaay [/Nicholas cage].

Of course they are unrealistic. They are fricking tests/demos.

You're being really, really obtuse here. Everyone already knows that nobody fights like that. Your comment though still sneaks in another hint that you are not very familiar with an NC MAX. It was the "with a non slug max" part. The reason why they don't use slugs at 20m is because slugs would be LESS effective at that range than pellets. Non NC players seem to be under the illusion that slugs increase the range of NC maxes. They don't.

Whatever argument you are having with someone else about C4 is your own. My assertion is that the NC max is not overpowered and needs no nerf. If you want to assert otherwise, provide your own evidence which so far you have not.

At which point you hear them communicating the latencies to eachother, which is how they got to their conclusion. Don't try to find problems where there are none.

From the first muzzle-flash to the kill-marker showing up in the feed. It's literally in the opening seconds.
Also as the second video can attest, and any experience from players who tested this (like oh I don't know, me for example?), this is the actual truth.
Even if you think the test might be done "wrong", at worst the unupgraded TR MAX would be equal to the NC MAX around the 10m mark, and then be superior.

Different FOV, different screen setups (800x600 is going to look a whole lot different compared to 2560x1440.

In one the NC MAX has full flak, hacksaws and upgraded magazines while the TR MAX is unupgraded. The other isn't mentioned, but gets similar results so odds are they have similar setups.

Yes, since then the NC MAX has been nerfed.

The only thing they could change is hide the NC MAX while he's reloading, but even then you have to give the TR a second or so to shoot while the NC MAX moves in to hide behind cover and a bit less to start shooting again. Regardless, the TR MAX would still win at anything above 10m.

You have a weird version of CQC. That's half a Sunderer length! Ever did combat around a Sunderer? That's some short distances to fight. What you are describing is extreme CQC, almost knifing-distance.

Send some video's of you fighting, I think that just 5 minutes and some pointers could reveal a lot of improvements to your gameplay if you think that most combat is done within those distances.

Yep, you really have a weird way of handling distance. Blueshifts are well capable of reaching 40m with decent effect.

Exactly, TR MAX was usually behind on the VS MAX in terms of accuracy and chances of scoring hits, which made the TR MAX slightly worse overall in the AI department.

I am rocking a 20 to 30ms connection for the last several months. I'm talking about the connection of most other people.

VS MAX's can also, but you just can't milk that power out of it. It's damn "hold trigger and look at enemy" skill we are talking about here...

So... You keep misjudging when to strike, and where to take cover. It's like with vehicles: Don't park next to a building infested with enemies and be surprised someone C4rs you.

Considering shotguns require pinpoint accuracy to get even remotely the same DPS as Blueshifts, I guess there's something wrong at your end.

You can fight them on long range and you can fight them close up. Ofcourse, if you think that 20m is already long-range for a Blueshift then you are going to have a lot of problems stopping them. So it's clear where the problem stems from: Your aim isn't good enough outside of 20m to be useful, and subsequently your aim in CQC isn't up to par to finish the job effectively either.

Considering your "middle" is 10m, small wonder you can't stop anything!

Yes, as the NC MAX had nerfs after the video and it's performance is even worse now at those ranges.

Here's a nice little tidbit: Most games players gravitate to the same accuracy rating. This is because that accuracy rating is what allows you to be effective against an enemy before he has a decent chance to kill you. Someone with bad aim will want an easier enemy and want to be closer to him before opening fire, resulting in similar accuracy ratings as someone with average or above average aim skill.

Consider now that your effective range where you think you can score a kill with Blueshifts is about half that you should be milking out of it... Yes you can't aim.

I got all infantry-shotguns auraxed, because with an LA you can more easily play your enemy and flank/ambush them. But a MAX can't do that, so I stick with other weapons like the Falcons. These are high-accuracy weapons similar to shotguns, but they require more leading and managing rocket-drop. Advantage is they actually have range and work well in crowded standoffs of 15+m distance. Still, I auraxed one and am on the way to aurax the other arm, so no I'm not incapable of hitting with shotguns, I just know the limits and where to use them and when to pick Falcons.

whoeps, sorry.

Yep, you convinced me that I can't aim. Just repeat it another 20 times and everyone else gonna believe that too. Untill they run into me in the game...;-)

If people are asking MAXs to be nerfed then there is something wrong.
Ive been playing this game since 2015. I have never been killed enough times for me to rage at a MAX.

They are basically a huge beacon saying come kill me. I feel vunerable IN a MAX, not facing one.

I think the problem comes from people sprinting around a doorway into a building and BAM! Theres a MAX there, within 5M thats just vaporised your internal organs.
Really, what do you expect?

MAXs should be flaked. Period. If you play correctly against one and dont try to solo it, they are quite simple.
If you assume you can beat ti at its own game, then they are going to destroy you.

Guess I need to state this again

One max should not have a significant advantage in the most important fights which the majority of CQC fights are.
The NC max can instagib c4 faeries, VS and TR can not.
Simple fix, give the NC max further range and reduce their damage, give TR and VS better CQC damage and reduce their range.

Allright, let's nerf the TR and VS MAX's, they have a definite advantage in the majority of "CQC". NC MAX is only useful in extreme CQC.

VS and TR can shoot them before they get into range.

Simple fix, don't screw the NC MAX by giving it more range and reduce their damage. It would mean they lose their only advantage and they would still be worse off at range compared to the TR/VS MAX, meaning the NC MAX would be worse off at just about everything.

Dude, you must be the the chosen one.
Eeveryone is wrong, but you.


You keep saying that NC Scatter Maxes are only pulled in "EXTREME" (whatever that is...) CQ situations, indoors mainly. And "NEVER" (straight up lie) outdoors. Btw. 90% of Planetaside Capture Bases, have a indoor cap Point.

Here is a Clip. One of tons out there, ( since we are now using Clips as proof) that show something different.

And this dude did not even have a engislave.

Like i said, you are a absolute NC Fan Boy. No hate, just Sayin.

congratulations, you pulled up a video from 2 years ago,
before charge was removed,
before c4 became trigger-able almost instantly after throwing,
before archers, rocklet rifles were added,
before tankmines triggered on maxes,
before rocket launchers gained a massive decrease to reload times.

you also realise that showing one guy getting a killstreak in an isolated incident means jack right?
count how many c4 bricks you see over that massive period, hardly any...
but we'll all happily wait for your 40 killstreak max video,
meanwhile here is an em1 killstreak video, EM1 OP confirmed guyz!

You know, I also saw that video, I also saw a video of a TR MAX getting around the same number of kills in the same list mister nitpicking hypocrite. I didnt use it because such video's are too often influenced by luck and the skill of your opponents. Just because I once got 12 kills in one minute with a pistol doesnt mean pistols are suddenly WMD superweapons.

You are putting a lot of weight into this "instagib" thing. If something is dead, it's dead. It doesn't matter if it died to overkill or just died.

As shown in an earlier video, the TR MAX kills things just as fast as the NC max. The TR and VS MAX can also engage a fast approaching target like a C4 fairy starting at further distances out.

C4 fairies are just as threating to NC MAXes as they are TR and VS. There is nothing about the shotgun system that gives an inherent advantage over C4 fairies.

The NC Max can only engage successfully the same range that C4 is effective at. Basically by the time your guns are useful it's too late.

I would personally much rather be in a TR MAX than an NC MAX if a C4 fairy was coming for me. I don't care if it's indoors or outdoors. TR/VS MAX can lay down fire on a fairy as it does it's jump arc. An NC MAX has to track the arc and try to time shots to hit before the already airborne C4 gets clicked.

I really think you should play more NC MAX. The instagib is fun when you can get it. As a player you seek out this fun. You'll learn though that this satisfying moment is few and far between. Most of your time will be spent in fear of your circumstances and trying to exercise some battlefield saavy to remove yourself from defenselessness and get to that point blank place of advantage.

Ow, this thread sure grew into something ! But as Demigan said, and I quote :

And it all boils down to that.

But it is not like infantry doesn't have tools to go against NC MAXes camping a room, and I'm not talking about rockets or C4, but grenades. Like, Flash nades, Concussion nades, or even the anti tank nade from the HA, it seems that nobody care to use them. Which is, and I dare to say it, pretty dumb when I see how effective it is as I stand on the business end of those. I ran into a couple of LA using Flash nades here and there whle I was camping at the control point, and they totally whiped the floor with my face. It wouldn't be hard to imagine a LA flashing a MAX, then running at it and C4 the hell out of it.

The funny thing is, while a NC MAX can instagib someone at very close range, it still requires at least 2 shots on a weapon that holds at best 12 shots (Grinder with Extended Mag). So, in theory, a NC MAX can kill up to 12 people. Now, onto TR MAX with dual Cycler, both Extended Mag : 90 ammunition per weapon, and a damage profile that allows 10 kills per magazine.
Get the picture ? NC MAXes may have the upper hand in alpha damage, but they lack both range and sustained fire. Even their reload time is the longest of any MAX, around 3 sec for short reload while TR stands at 2.5 sec (which, given their sustained fire, is even more ridiculous).

Oh, and if you want to rant about what I said : TR MAX, dual Mutilator with Extended Mag : 300 ammo and a TTK of 0.6sec@10m, 8-shot kill. Not the instagib fiesta of the NC MAX, but with some pocket-Engineer it can maw through squads.

I run thermals on my MAX loadouts but not many have that implant.

If MAXes are giving you trouble, smoke usually helps. MAXes can't run INRV scopes.