Am I the only one tired of instagibbing scat maxes

ROFL.

So just get smacked around left and right by every veteran who disagrees with you. Somehow turn that on it's head and declare victory?

Enough man. Go away with this. Your penance is to go aurax a scatter cannon or hacksaw.

You are now talking about something different, then the threat maker said. He had enough of this BS with NC Scatermaxes Oneshotkill and so do many others, me to.

They are OP compared to the VS and TR ones, FACT.

They will get nerfed, sooner or later. Or VS TR AI maxes get buff.

Otherwise threats like this will continue.

Try not dieing to them.

Kids, kids. The Scatmax and hackmax already got nerfed. A looooong time ago and the balance has been fine since. This got settled in the first year of the game. I'm going on a limb here and saying you haven't played that long.

When you say they are OP it is NOT a fact. At ~5m the Scat/hackmax and Mercimax are evenly matched. Beyond that and the pellet spread makes the scat/hack damage fall off and the Merci starts owning it.

So you want to take the ONE thing that it can actually do (kill people under 5m) and make it so that is does NONE things well. Then what? One faction gets a MAX that does nothing? That's a genius plan.

I propose instead you all stop this whining and crying for a nerf and actually play the thing. Don't trying lying and say you have because it's obvious you haven't.

Now if you want to start a different thread and talk about how gimped the ZOE MAX is, I'll gladly jump in there and support you. But for THIS thread, to imply that the NC Max needs a nerf just because people die faster at point blank than they would otherwise die to a TR/VS max then I can only shake my head. Learn-to-play.

You do realize that "die in giblets (NC)" and "die before you can escape (TR/VS)" is the SAME RESULT right? /SMFH

You nerfers are ruining the game. (ZOE MAX being a perfect example.... whiners made that happen too)

Kids? So you are the grown up here? Ok...

You just dont get it do you, the Scattermax outperforms their Counterparts by far.

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At ~5m the Scat/hackmax and Mercimax are evenly matched.

Sure dude.... what Game is that you playing? That is just straight up a lie.

And no one whants a nerf necessarily, buff the other Ai maxes and all is good.

Quote: You do realize that "die in giblets (NC)" and "die before you can escape (TR/VS)" is the SAME RESULT right?

mhhh..... no.

Again, what Game are you playing? Is that hard to understand, that you cant escape a oneshotkill?

Btw, i have been around since the early first year. I have played on many Servers, with different factions.

I think i am able to know what i am talking about.

Ok fair trade since all of you defending the scatmax complain about range, reduce the damage on them give them better range, reduce range on the TR and VS and give them better CQC damage

That way you don't have have 1 max dominating *the most important fights* in the game

I do get it, you absolutely suck as a TR/VS MAX and have to blame something else instead.

Translation: You suck, but you are smart enough to realize it and try to avoid the situation. You do want to be able to attack in that situation so you blame something else and hope to get your MAX buffed.

Translation: I still am not very good with MAX's and am hoping that people will ignore that and give me more firepower because I try to blame something else for it.

Yep, you need that long to kill. Do we need to tailor the entire game around you?

A decimator isn't that bad. Sure getting a large chunk of damage isn't the best, but you're a MAX, receiving damage is kinda the thing it's build for. Kill them after/during the shot.
And if you get C4red as a VS/TR MAX, you were too close or flanked. The NC MAX is forced to stay close enough to get C4red, but the VS/TR MAX have plenty range to murder them before they get that close.

I complain? Could you explain that one for me?

This is the entire shotgun debacle all over again.

Shotguns are supposed to be superior in CQC. They only have marginal superiority, even the NC MAX shotguns, but it is there (even though with normal shotguns it's so mind-numbingly difficult to stay ahead in terms of DPS because of RNG and damage falloff that it's in all practicality impossible).
The trade-off is that it isn't good at range, and not as in "and SMG isn't good at range" but as in "it can't do it". With any other CQC weapon in the game, you at least have the option to use trigger discipline to keep your COF down and be somewhat effective at long-range. Shotguns don't have that.

The ScatMAX can only outperform the VS/TR MAX in extreme CQC. IE within +/-8m distance, or a bit shorter than a Sunderer length. After that COF and damage falloff have kicked in too far and it's impossible to stay ahead.
As much as people state "but most fights are CQC!", the truth is that with "CQC" they mean "within +/-25m distance". The MAX is already closer to a tickle-machine around 15m than the beast of mayhem the sad anti-scatMAX people try to make it out to be, and the TR/VS MAX outperform it around that 8m mark already.

Want proof? Look at where the TR/VS MAX's are pulled, and then think of where NC MAX's are pulled. NC MAX's are used in a few specific bases with regularity, but rarely ever in any other base. People like you like to point out "oh, but most of the fights happen in CQC", if that were true for the NC MAX, it would be pulled just about everywhere. Since it isn't for all the obvious reasons people like you like to ignore, the NC MAX isn't as perfect for CQC as you think.

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This is the entire shotgun debacle all over again.

Shotguns are supposed to be superior in CQC.

So why did all the other Faction specific Weapons get nerfed?

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The trade-off is that it isn't good at range

What range?? They are Ai Maxes, they are not soupposed to be good at range.
And saying Sctttermax has no range, is a lie!


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The ScatMAX can only outperform the VS/TR MAX in extreme CQC.

TR/VS MAX outperform it around that 8m mark already

No it doesnt. The Mattlocks + Slugs Outperforms them by far. Thats the reason why the NC Ai Max, is Outperforming their Counterparts.

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Want proof?

Do you whant proof? I Play mainly on Miller. NC is pulling at literally every base a Scattermax. And thats a fact!

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Since it isn't for all the obvious reasons people like you like to ignore, the NC MAX isn't as perfect for CQC as you think.

People like me? Who said the NC scattermax was perfect? We are sick and tired of getting oneshotkilled by NC Maxes.
What is so hard to understand about that. Nerf or Buff the other ones!

Because they had nothing to do with shotguns and you are trying to make an argument out of something else. It's like me suddenly going "haHA! Pistols were buffed recently! So I'm right!". They were buffed for a wholly different reason and their correlation to shotguns and scatMAX's is tiny at best.

Are you taking your medicine? NC AI MAX has far less range than the TR/VS MAX. A TR/VS MAX can be effective up to 30 to 50m depending on the weapons, an AI NC MAX up to 15m.

You've never used Mattocks+slugs did you? They don't outperform them by far, in fact they don't outperform them period. You might as well be stating that Vanu uses baggy hipsterclothing for armor instead of their spandex.

I also play on Miller! What a coinkidink! And as NC main I have a lot of vision on what my allies are doing and when they pull their MAX's (and as TR/VS on Miller I have the exact same experience). And guess what? NC MAX's are used in only a few specific bases with any regularity. So your "fact", like most other "facts" you've so far rattled off, are actually misguided information based on confirmation bias.

You basically said the NC Scattermax was perfect. And we do touch on the exact problem here! You are sick and tired of getting OHK'd by NC MAX's, but you mistakenly assume the TR/VS MAX are somehow weaker or worse off.

You are either delusional are an absoulute NC fanboy. And i think i know you frome Miller.
You can throw your nummbers as much as you whant dude. Fact remains, this Oneshot Scattermax Needs to go.

I have a grand idea, to solve this issue:

Remove the ******* shotguns, to replace them with proper ballistics just like VS & TR.
Now after that, we buff the Maxes, all three.
Which now are equal in engagement range in every degree, making that a lot simpler.
Since NC isn't packing hard-range Shotguns, there isn't a "One-shot" factor to worry about - So NC isn't too strong or screwed.

If you complain that NC just needs to lose the one-shot nature of RNGesus.. instead..
I have to ask, if you really just like Killing NC Maxes, more so than dislike being instant-gibbed by one.
Since the plot is to equalize the Max units, by giving them the same type of weaponry.
It's hard to balance one of three being Shotguns, the other two being ballistics, when it comes down to it.
As either the Shotgun is too potent in the range it can fire, or it's ineffective completely.
It's why we aren't balancing Shotguns to Carbines, or Carbines to Shotguns: yet on Max units, we are.
(Not carbines specifically, just an entirely different weapon type, vastly different & requirements, being matched)

Translation: I can't defend my position and have to try and make him look bad.

And besides "I don't like it", what have you actually given for a reason to substantiate this "fact"? Oh yeah, you tried to say "I don't like it, now suddenly the TR/VS MAX need buffs because... Reasons..."

If anyone who's delusional, it's you if you think such dumb tactics would work.

Jesus! What dont you get!?

The NC MAX is just reking everything. You say that, it is supposed to, because it is a shotgun.
So why is the TR/VS not reking with their MAX? And dont tell they are, cuz they are not.

You can throw your nummbers as much as you whant. You really think all these threads about the NC MAX, is because we suck hat playing TR/VS MAX? That is

delusional thinking right there.

And you are an

absoulute

NC Shotgun Fanboy and thats why you are defending something that is not balanced.

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If anyone who's delusional, it's you if you think such dumb tactics would work.

Dumb? Tactics? It is useless arguing with a NC Fanboy. Threats like this will continue, rather you like it or not.

I do get it, unfortunately that's just not what you want to hear.

No I'm not saying the NC MAX wrecks everything. I'm saying it has a marginal advantage in CQC combat, but a buttload of downsides that go along with it.
And yes, a shotgun is supposed to be best in CQC, it's it's purpose.

TR/VS MAX's are wrecking, you just don't have the skill to milk it out of there. Which is sad because the TR/VS MAX require little skill to operate decently, especially compared to the NC MAX. Hold trigger, look at enemy, keep an eye on your surroundings every now and then. That's about it.

Actually no, it's not delusional. The problem is with how people feel about it, and how much excuses they can come up with. They lose against an NC MAX and they lose against something with a relatively unique weaponset, since they don't own the same weaponset they point to that and say "see? That killed me in an unfair way!". But it's not an unfair way, it's not even better than the weapons they have on their own MAX's! But why would you let that get in the way of a good rant?

We've seen this already with normal shotguns. They were already behind in the statistics compared to most other weapons, even usage. Yet people complained that these weapons were used by everyone whenever a CQC environment popped up, and just like with the NC MAX they then state that almost every single base is a CQC environment. Yet when you got down to it, practically no one used shotguns, even though it's a weapon available to most classes. Why wouldn't anyone use shotguns, but still complain about it as if it was OP?

They complained about the shotguns because they were outplayed. Dying to a shotgunwielder who sneaked his way over was a humiliation to them. They felt like they didn't get a chance to retaliate, even though any other weapon could have done the same but from longer range. Hell, people complained that shotguns could OHK you! The only way 4 out of 6 shotguns could OHK you was by standing at knife-range and dealing a headshot, probably one of the most skillful tricks to pull off in the game against a moving target. Yet everyone continuously complained that shotguns "always OHK you". It's bullcrap all over.

Ah yes, inventing stuff for me to think again. So if I'm such an NC shotgun fanboy, why do I have so little usage time on my NC MAX shotguns? And so much more time on my NC MAX Falcons?

The NC MAX isn't unbalanced. The only thing you hear is stuff like "omg, it can OHK!", but the TR/VS MAX's can do similar things but don't have to sacrifice their range for it.

Yes, dumb tactics. Threads like this will continue, but not because the people in it are right.

Are you saying that all TR and VS can't play(they can't even deal with a Max that is, according to you, easier to handle)? Go ahead and find VS players that claim the VS Max is better or just equal to NC Max. Good luck...

Sure they can. Just stupid VS and TR players didn't figure out how yet. Care to enlighten us? ;-)

You are always comming up with your fictional "oh you can fight on long range"-stuff, but the reality is if a VS Max tries to fight a heavy on long range then he will get the decimator twice in his face(the heavy will just hide and recover his shield when reloading). If you hide from the decimator the heavy will use the time to get closer and c4 you...because in CQC with a prepared enemy your TTK as VS Max is just waaaaay too long. Same with LAs and ambusher jumpjets. In your fictional situation VS Maxes always hit on single infantry that is running right over a huge open area and won't shoot back at all. For such a situation nobody pulls a MAX tho cause any class can do it without of spending resources.
Maxes are currently not the weapon of choice vs air, they are currently not the weapon of choice vs vehicles(at least not VS Maxes)...they are basicly only used to storm and defend capture points(or as a "just for fun"-pick). That's where CQC happens. You can't fight an NC Max on medium range unless he is stupid(inside a building anyone can avoid fighting on medium range. There are enough boxes, corners etc.. NC Max got the shield on top of that to close any gaps if they need to)...and even then you wouldn't survive those shotgun bursts as anything but Max or maybe heavy(you always pretend that shotguns won't do damage at medium range, but given the countless times I have been killed by them I can tell you: They do. They may not be really dangerous for other Maxes but for all other infantry.). In CQC you often find yourself suddenly fighting 2 or 3 enemies that rush around some corner and at point blank only one thing matters: TTK. Taking out 2 or 3 enemies while some other faction Max is still shooting at no.1 is a HUGE advantage. And C4 as arch nemesis of Maxes makes it even more important to kill before someone can press the button.

We do not have situation where only Maxes fight Maxes on medium/long-range and nobody ever needs to come closer. That just does not happen. You are talking about fictional battlefields. We got a lot of obstacles all over the place to hide behind, decimators, ambusher/C4 and goals that need to be achieved(which means you just can't stay on medium/long range). If everything culminates in CQC and TTK is the most important thing in CQC, then the Max with the best TTK got a huge advantage.

Some old stuff, still relevant...

This one was done BEFORE the NC Max got it's nerf. It's far worse now.

You guys asking for this nerf need to L2P. Hate saying that, but it's just obvious you haven't spent enough time using the thing you are asking to be nerfed.

I've already enlightened you, but you apparently weren't paying attention. It's called the "latency system", you know that thing that people often complain about when they say "I have to shoot people 12 times and they only need to get 4 hits on me"? Now apply that to TR/VS MAX's who have full capability to kill you before the first hitmarker arrives and presto! Basically the same as a OHK but without the need to be picture-perfect with your aim while shooting!

Once again the story is basically "I suck, so everyone must suck". I don't know how you fight at long-range, but if your enemy is doing pop-up maneuvers and you keep standing out in the open waiting for them to shoot you, then you are doing something wrong. Either use that healthpool to approach them, or wait for them to come to you and then catch them when they are out in the open. You are a MAX, you have the advantage, why give them the advantage by standing around hoping to kill people that do pop-up attacks?

Where do you take cover that it happens so easily? Are you just standing around the corner and waiting for the Heavy to C4 you? You should be doing quick pop-ups where you spot them, then wait until they start moving and catch them off-guard. Or better, move back a bit and surprise them when they find out their C4 is going to be useless against the MAX that's not there anymore and kill them when they enter. You know, the basics that normal infantry should be capable off as well.

Only if you miss most of your shots.

Shoot them before they launch. Don't stand in places where they can launch with relative cover as they land. Move around to reduce the chance of getting C4red, NC MAX's have a lower chance of survival in Ambusher cases btw as their aim needs to be far more perfect than that of the TR/VS MAX.

I could go on, but it all comes down to your inability to fight with a VS MAX, not the ability of an NC MAX.

Those are old, but more recent tests from my own outfit for example had similar results.

Yep. Quite old. The head-to-head one isn't quite valid anymore as all NC MAX shotguns had their magazine size reduced shortly after that video released.

It gives the general idea though. In my own experience the transition from NC MAX being dominant to the others being dominant happens at around 5m. You could split hairs with the difference right at that range. NC dominates closer, TR/VS pull away further out.

I think the posters views on the NC Max are a side effect of the psychological. When you get gibbed by an NC Max you remember it. It's easy to forget all the times you engaged one at distance. The MAX didn't kill you and more than likely didn't even bother to try.

I wish we could have a constructive conversation. Something we universally agree on like the ZOE MAX BS that VS has to deal with.