k thx bi jk In all seriousness infails are kept useless, they never get any fun. No av because tank drivers are terrified of c4 flashes as is and hacking vehicles means you need to pick off the drivers before you can get in. Infails are reduced to one build aka cqc sniping; CQC blotters can snipe at same ranges as 12x load outs. SMG infil is gimped. Scout rifles while improved are still laughable. Constantly destroyed turrets are impossible to hack thus losing flank pay off. I hate playing infil just to know that all i'm good at is my nerved motion *****. Saying a infil can frag quickly with cqc bolt isn't justification for their lack of utility outside emp grenade and *****. Other classes frag just as fast and in larger quantity with lower skill. All i'm saying is let infails do something fun. OH and nerf renegade flash.
Infiltrators are only kept from being the most powerful class as they require more thought and skill in their gameplay than HA's. SMG Infils are still kicking butt (I should know, I'm doing it right now). Calling them infails is a failure on your part to understand their role (in depth), capabilities and usage.
In all honesty my infails comments are a point made that this class doesn't break even with even ASP engineer. The class is kept weak since invisible shotguns, infinite sniper cloak (old stalker) , no c4 or tank mines because of stealth bombing( you can do it anyway) make people cry unfair. What really is unfair is driftard c4 cheese, the firepower and durability of a heavy and a medics accuracy out pacing infiltrators in KPM. lack of c4 and nerved ai mines greatly reduce the possible contribution of the infiltrator. Why play that when you can get monster kills off of 1 brick of c4 or playing something like cyclone heavy. More skill? There is only one player that comes to mind when using infil effectively; elusive1. All else is gimped. You'd be better off flanking with a turbo flash and light assault. Plinking away hoping for head shots with battle hardened doesn't have real impact. one light assault medic or heavy can change the fight. hell even engineers have more utility through mines spitfires and repairs….
Yes, that poor Engineer trying to keep up... Seriously an Infiltrator is an awesome class. Because it is unfair? They tried shotgun infils in beta, and it basically meant the other classes were obsolete. Being able to use shotguns while ignoring almost all their weaknesses is a terrible design idea, so they removed shotguns from Infils. Infinite sniper cloak? Old stalkers? What game have you been playing? Because in the PS2 I play the Stalkers never had access to snipers and have always had their primary shut down. And it's not infinite sniper cloaks you should fear, it's infinite SMG cloaks that would have been the problem. No C4 or tank mines for infiltrators is a perfect decision. Can you imagine how it would go if you could just walk up to any tank and C4 it without them having any real hope of protecting themselves against you? The only way you could cloak and C4 someone is using a Flash, and at least those are loud, require teamwork and tip off the attacked enemy big time before the bang. Also since you have to pick up someone in a Flash it takes a lot longer per run to blow someone up, rather than just any infil being able to spawn, run towards the base circumference and blow a tank up. Rarely see it, still well capable of defending against Drifter C4 as there's relatively few places where they can effectively get on top if you do this thing called "looking around" and "have situational awareness". But hey I'm down with nerfing C4 as long as infantry gets actually capable resource-costing AV weapons at it's disposal. Nanites destroying nanites is a fair game. 1: It's called specialization. You can't expect the Infil to be supreme in everything. 2: The Infil being outpaced in KPM? Only when sniping I assume? Even then, the capabilities of an Infil don't lie in sheer killingpower, but where that killingpower happens. But as an SMG Infil, that sheer killingpower is there anyway. Lack of C4 is a wonderfully good thing for the game, try and think of the absolutely bad gameplay we would have if infils could just walk up to almost anything unseen and blow it apart... And when was the last AI mine nerf? Anyway, AI mines should never have been the "deploy for free kill" idea. They should have been like any other deployable: You have to be nearby to make use of it. You don't use C4 much do you? Sure in potentia you can get monsterkills with C4, you can also get a monsterkill with a singe Lasher orb if enough low-health people bunch up simultaneously, but the chance of it actually happening is low. Also C4 spam is something people often complain about but I rarely ever get to see it... And still no reason not to take the Infil. And a Cyclone Heavy? I rarely ever see SMG Heavies in all my playtime. Infils with SMG's are way more dangerous anyway unless the Infil goes and has a direct confrontation. Infil doesn't use skill... Well here's your problem folks! If you think that, small wonder you think the class is gimped!
Last AI mine nerf was a long long time ago, they reduced the max damage radius iirc, using infil to place AI mines within bunches of enemies is much less effective because of it, which i think is good. About Infil killing / specialisation. Agree, but also dont forget to point out that all a HA can do is kill stuff, infil is like a killer + support hybrid class, those radars, hacking terminals and turrets, very powerful. De-cloaking with an SMG in some1s face, devastating. Monster C4 kills ended with the c4 splash nerf years ago. I remember back when they 'walled up' Esamir, getting 15 kills with 1 brick at what was then called The Octagon (Watersons Redemption), im glad that stupidity got reigned in.
My point is infil isn't effective in a vehicle environment because they obviously can't have AV explosives. My solution is to broaden hacking targets doing things like taking modules offline rather than converting them. Infiltrator whether you like it or not isn't allowed to have unique utility. It really is a one build class. It's scary to the developers. C4 wraith flash is doable alone. Drifters are why lock lets aren't a thing. A medic heavy engineer and light assault all out class a infils KPM even when played by someone like elusive1. c4 monster kills are still a thing. Not that it matters since the sustain of medkits gets you kills more effectively while also padding KD.
Your solution to lack of AV capability is to allow them to hack modules? That doesn't seem like a very good comparison doesn't it? I'm not sure how good of a system it would be if Infils could temporarily disable modules through hacking due to their ability to get into PMB's that, when the Infil attacks, is almost primarily defended by automated equipment. For AV I hack turrets. No turrets available? Buy a turret from an ANT or Silo (I prefer the non-tower version) and place it behind enemy lines for sweet juicy rear-shots. Smart people will place it with a view of cover where enemy tanks repair and then pick those damaged tanks off. Or you just wait until the owners get out for a repair and snipe/SMG them. If you really want you can then destroy their tank with an explosive X-bow (assuming no other enemies are nearby. Even then it's very much possible). As for Infils being a one-build-class. Infils are the most versatile class in the game. LA's are stuck with Carbines, SMG's and shotguns. Similar goes for the HA and Medic. But the Infil? As a sniper it's a completely different class than with an SMG or scout rifle, and with Stalker it's often used (wrongly) as another different class. It's recon equipment is unique (I don't count the 10 sec X-bow darts, those are about gone by the time you switch back to your weapon) and it's the perfect mine layer compared to the more defensively oriented and much more rarely used Engineer (rarely used for infantry combat that is).
Your rebuttal is Turret hacking is powerful enough? I disagree. Heavies light assaults medics and even the MAX can take out modules without burning through their entire load out resources. Infiltrator's best build without question is sniping. Cloak is visible enough to get caught during flanks. Light assaults are more devastating for flanking. The engineer has access to radar. Infils have been reduced in importance through other classes being able to replicate their abilities. I still wonder why vehicle hacking is ok but hacking to disable an ams temporarily or a module is so awful. What are you afraid of by allowing an infil to participate in the vehicle game? This isn't COD.
Hey buddy. You turn invisible. Not sure if you knew that or not. It's pretty uncommon you know. Having a group of players that can turn invisible to other players. Most games don't have that. It's kinda hard to balance. I'm sure you can understand. The limitations you have are related to this effort to maintain the balance. If you want to do everything in the game, you're going to have to choose a class that doesn't require this balance. Also keep in mind, it's not just another base turret you are talking about. It represents considerable effort on behalf of another player to mine the materials and construct it while on a potentially hostile field of play. You being able to come along, turn invisible, and jack it all up in a few seconds doesn't make for fun gameplay for others. You're not a selfish person though so you thought of that.
Yes I know that one infil could potentially muck up a player base with this. Notice I said disable which could be adjusted. For example after a period of time it turns back on. Invisible is more like concealed. anyone with a good computer is going to shoot you while cloaked. these don't have to be easy hacks. I just think it would allow infil to stay true to its identity while pitching in to anti construction play.
Disclaimer: I'm one of those people who still says Ps2 is inferior to PS1 because it lacked that fundamental Vehicle hacking that basically defined the Infiltrator and made them a real threat to Tanks or even some pilots if they landed too close to a hidden infiltrator... ...that said... Hacking PMB Turrets is fundamentally wrong under the current circumstances of The P.V.E. Game... You're asking "PVE?...WTF!" ... yes, Player vs. Environment!, that's essentially what the Construction system is at its core. It's a race against time to fight the Topology of the land itself for the resources you need to keep your base alive while your Routes around the area can change drastically depending on the PvP influences in the area. And currently, Player Bases which are essentially all balanced around self automation *(making them in essence a PvE Entity themselves) ... currently have NO systems to counter invisible players. I main Stalker myself, and nothing that's "automated" counters my Kit. You can put down Proxy mines, but I crab-walk... ..around every hostile scenario already thanks to Implants, you aren't ever going to see me step on them or be caught off guard by a partially hidden Spitfire....I am literally INTEL-incarnate as Stalker. The other of which aspect, is the EMP perk so I can clear out entire Mine fields and have MORE nades left over to disable a Spitfire or two. Which would be a ridiculously unfair advantage to have if I could ALSO hack player Spear Turrets and A.I modules as well. You'd effectively end up with every Base manager maining a Stalker infiltrator themselves just to counter other infiltrators which is already the sort of situation we've had for YEARS with Snipers countering Snipers. ...you Ask ANYONE who's played FPS games long enough, they all agree this is the most Cancerous meta any game can have! ...Normies always hate any kind of rogue/stealth meta, and this forum used to have more "NERF SNIPERS!" posts than it honestly had any other Nerf thread back in the day before all the stealth-playstyle haters gave up and quit the game. (and that was during the time that Nanoweave could stop a Headshot kill!) So no... Hacking the rest of the Construction items that aren't Vehicle terminals, is out of the question until there's something in the Buildables that's actually designed to counter invisibility. Anti-Infantry spear turrets are already a JOKE when Light Assaults zip past them with ease, so they're not even a Deterrent against cloakers. Pain towers can't be doubled up so anyone can just pop stims if they have to power through those things. Pretty much the only thing that even slows a cloaker down in a PMB is using that exploit that lets you put Staircase geometry of the small Bunker on TOP of your modules/Spawn Tube. ....personally at this point (mostly b/c it was NERFED so harshly) ...I'd rather us Infiltrators AND Engineers alike, just be given the Archer as a SECONDARY slot piece of equipment. ...and then just buff the stupid thing against Player Base Objects b/c it currently deals less damage to those things right now than the stupid Mini-Crossbow.
My rebuttal is "theres plenty an Infil can do against vehicles". You keep going on about the infil AV potential and now finally you come with the connection why PMB hacking would be a good idea: because the AV potential would be solely for dealing with PMB modules. But you've been ignoring all the bad stuff like what an infil would really do with c4 if he had it. Hint it wont be killing pmb's. Infiltrators used to have a lot more killing powet vs PMB's. This was deliberately reigned in as it was not good gameplay to have a single infil break down someone's work when they were away. Pmb's in general are badly designed still, taking too much time to build and maintain and requireing too much power to make it worth building them, but simply allowing a single class solo a base isnt a good idea. Now hacking the base modules sounds like a much more reasonable request than simply destroying or converting modules but until PMB's are given a good balanced role I would say that we shouldnt be making it harder to defend a base as the risk of giving pmb's more power "because they are hard to defend" lurks in the shadows. And infiltrators best loadout is smg's. Snipers are mostly a KD ***** edition that rarely pays off in battles.
