All of those melee changes they said in the roadmap

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Akeita, Jul 5, 2014.

  1. Akeita

    I see none, so I got questions

    Is it possible to hold out a knife to run around yet ? If yes, how do I do it ?

    Is there anything new other than the knife damage's nerf ? Any new melee weapon ?

    And, seriously, they need to make weapon affect to movement speed, a HA with a rocket launcher running as fast as a guy with a pistol is ridiculous...
    • Up x 1
  2. Epicstrat

    No, not possible yet. Those changes have not happened yet.
  3. Pikachu

    No change.
  4. Vikarius

    100x agreed.

    - They need to add a melee damage cert line for infiltrator and LA
    - They need to add sword based weapons that take up secondary slot with ability to OHKO under certain circumstances

    - LMGs should have -0.25x to the ADS movement on every single one. (Example: orion would have 0.50x)
    - Rocket launchers and ES heavy weapons should make you run slower
  5. FateJH

    They're talking about melee combat, not the HA. Keep it to your own thread.

    Is there any indication why they're holding back on the melee combat update?
  6. Vikarius


    L2Read please.

    The OP clearly mentioned a problem with an HA with a RL (or probably meaning 2 primary weapons and a secondary) running as fast as someone with just a pistol (or just a pistol and 1 primary)
  7. Leftconsin

    But your HA already has that rocket launcher in his pocket. It should slow him down no matter what. Even you claim nanites you still have to carry the nanites.
  8. Chipay


    You don't have to carry the nanites with you. Otherwise how would you explain ammo packs holding an infinite amount of ammo?
  9. Leftconsin

    I dunno. Nanites reassemble the ground or floor into bullets? Perhaps the air?
  10. Chipay


    Then the same argument can be used for weapons :p
    • Up x 1
  11. FateJH

    Then the OP needs to have entitled the thread better, rather than shoehorn unrelated topics together.

    The Rocket Launcher is a Tool that you primarily use as a weapon but it is not a primary weapon.
  12. Vikarius


    .... or people need to actually read the post before responding to it: (AKA not trolling)

    The relation here is weight. A Liberator in game is larger then an ESF, and moves slower then the ESF. A galaxy is larger then a liberator and move slower then a liberator. A Max is larger then any other infantry and moves slower then any other infantry. I could go on and on and on about not only vehicles but specific weapons.

    If the heavy assault is going to have everything and the sun, and excel at so much. It needs to be under the same ruleset as everything else. If you are going to be carrying the heaviest Small arms weapons, and a heavy rocket launcher, both with tons of ammunition supply as well.... then you need to naturally move slower to reflect it. (in ADS as well)

    If the LA and Inf naturally had like 25% more run speed, turn speed, and ADS speed over a Heavy Assault. You'd find how such a small but impactful change could actually balance out class identity without even having to nerf something like the HA shields.
  13. Leftconsin

    Yeah I know... Fortunately I don't care if I argue myself into a corner in a discussion about how nanites work. :rolleyes:
  14. FateJH

    I gave my reasons and I will shut up about them.

    That's entirely a conceptual introduction to the game. Is there a design document that states that the size or dimensions of something in terms of the game world correlates to the speed that its weilder or operator is assigned? That's requisite for any form of HA tuning - that size correlates tyo speed and that size directly correlates to mass (implied or otherwise). You have stated yourself the sentiment that movement speed is a balance, and that is the most that can be said of it.

    In the Infantry realm, there's no other class that adheres to this rule as it is agreed. The distribution of Adrenaline Pump notwithstanding, all pure Infantry classes move at the same speed. The MAX is a quasi-Vehicle and many people don't even consider them to be Infantry; or, rather, they consider a MAX as a Vehicle or as an Infantry depending on which is convenient to the point they are trying to make. As far as I am concerned, MAXes move slowly in PS2 because they moved slowly in PS1. Also, in PS1, different "suits" actually wore physical armor that had to be repaired; by your argument, more armor would mean slower speeds. The energy shield that five classes are equipped with in this game wouldn't weigh differently, and you would need to somehow argue that the secondary one for the HA would have considerable weight. The argument could then evolve into "players equipped with Nanoweave and Flak move more slowly than a player with Grenade Bandoleer."

    You say "If the heavy assault is going to have everything and the sun, and excel at so much" but I don't feel you back that up. What does the HA do that is everything and the sun? they have a shield that allows them to perform a suicidal "stand out in the open in a firefight" tactics that other classes could never pull off and a main weapon that is occasionally trumped by the other class's weaponry, Carbines and Assault Rifles usually being the culprits. They also have a rocket launcher, which marks them as a primary AV class. The short of it is that they only have the ability to fight things and lack the ability to render any sort of assistance to other classes.

    Moreover, from the very beginning, what was proposed for the HA shields are not nerfs. The shiedls will handle damage in the same way. They will last for as long as they did before. They will recharge the same as before. They are modifying options that would affected a player's decision-making process in when best to activate the shield, but the that shield is still the same shield. (Unless there's a part of the change of which I am unaware.)
  15. Vikarius2.0

    1. There is already a correlation in game between size and weight, it is so simple and obvious I am baffled as to how one could even argue against it. If there wasn't why wouldn't Libs be the size of ESFs with just huge guns sticking out? I could again, make a hundred examples, but as I said it takes someone *oblivious* to not see the connection.

    2. Now you are trying to argue semantics, but failing at doing so. Also, the armor suits you could wear in PS1 did not need to be repaired lol. Shows how much you (if at all) actually played the game. The HA shield is the class ability slot. Every class has a class ability slot, just as every class has a slot for the bandoleer/flak/etc. So just as you mentioned about the base shield this is what determines the base or normal movement speed of infantry, (except this also means inf should have a higher base run speed as well since it lacks in EHP).

    3. As far as the HA doing everything and the sun, there is nothing to "back up" that hasn't already. This goes back to point #1 and being oblivious. Are you going to argue that HA has access to LMGs, RLs, and a secondary? How about all that + a class shield +other slots the rest of infantry classes have access too as well?....lol

    4. Without a noticeable *BASE* mobility difference, you cannot legitimately design a class around "stand out in the open in a firefight" (AKA better EHP) because there is no possible way the game could force the player of said class to stand out in the open so they can take those extra rounds. In fact we see the opposite, and that is a general sense to why there is imbalance. There is nothing stopping an HA from moving about at the same speeds as other classes with almost half their EHP and a fraction of their arsenal (as well as weight) You have to maintain class identity in a class based system and balance them all so they are all effective, otherwise you might as well remove the class system all together (the smart way aka PS1 way).

    5. They made a post telling the community that they were going to add a ramp up time or a delayed activation to the HA shield which they never did, and they have gone completely silent about. My suggestion for the mobility difference not only makes more sense as far as weight+physics are concerned, but from a class identity perspective as well (you could say common sense here as well). The mobility difference ( base mobility difference), I bet, would be the perfect change to not only tune other classes into a standard, but be enough to set HA at a standard where they wouldn't need the ramp up time on the shield, as they would already have inherently built in draw backs to the class of which is it clearly lacking atm.
  16. Cinnamon

    They changed knife damage from 600 to 500 for no reason. What they will do is wait for everyone to forget that then charge 1000 station cash for a new knife that does 600 damage.
  17. FateJH

    1. I do argue it because I do not believe it was ever stated openly, and I do not feel the developers offer me sufficient trust that I can accept an implicit correlation to be the rule.

    2. I currently have two characters, one TR and one VS. Let's coordinate a Let's Play?
    Like PS2 has shields and health, PS1 had armor and health. When their health was damaged, you use a Medical Applicator or a Medkit to patch it back up. When their armor was damaged, you use a BANK tool to restore it. It was just another HP hurdle, not a resistance like Nanoweave, but it still applies.
    [IMG]
    I don't want to get into arguments tying movement speed to the Ability Slot because then we need something to argue that the tech for a full body shield is heavier than the tech for a full body cloak, and that the triage systems used by the Medic are somewhere between that. That is my complaint against trying to argue weight when wieght is not properly reflected and factored in other cases - you have to import someone else's system.
    (And I think Infiltrators should have that extra 100HP to which they have no reason to not be entitled.)

    3. Everyone but Light Assault has access to a primary weapon, a secondary weapon, and a Tool. (The fact that the LA class doesn't have a tool is terrible and the oversight should be remedied.) Even so, all they can do is "shoot at things" which is also a base requirement for all classes. They just have less finesse than a Light Assault, don't have the indirect devices of the Engineer, the stealth of an Infiltrator, or the sustainability of a Combat Medic (who can keep healing himself after each encounter). The MAX is the only other class truly like the HA in that it excels only at shooting at things. Asides from the MAX, or perhaps exclusive to certain MAX arms, all of the other classes also interact with their environment and allies in complicated ways. The HA is focused entirely on engaging what is in front of him (ties into points 4 and 5 in my opinion).

    4. Which is the heart of the matter. I do not believe the Heavy Assault class is imbalanced or overpowered and I have never read an argument or got into an engagement that made me feel that way. I think all the classes do a good job at maintaining unique identity on the field and it doesn't need the movement velocity disparities that muck up the tank balance argument (especially true for the Vanguard).

    5. Technically, if the purpose of the HA shield was to stand out in the open during a firefight, it would do a much better job of deflecting or mitigating damage than it currently does. I do not know how you would get anyone to agree to something like that. I am aware that was a gross simplification of how the Heavy Assault class plays but it served the purposes of framing the shield. By design, it offers the HA a bit more protection while performing complicated and dangerous maneuvers. I think it was stated that the change to the HA shields was to move them away from being a functional reactionary system to one that works better/best when used in a planned proactive manner. I personally believe that is a good idea.
    I need not mention that the HA moves slower when the shield is active.

    If you want to implement a weight system directly correlated to game model size, then we implement the whole thing and make it based on either voxels or polygon volume combined with hardcoded material values that apply to everything. SOE has a tendency to muck up half-baked or half-implemented things more than they do thorough systems and people complain when there is potential evidence of favoritism.

    Now, my compromise, if you want to tell HAs that they need to move slower when they have their class shield (equipped), you need to also offer them the option to go out into the field without it (unequipped) fo equivalent movement speed of the other four pure Infantry classes. Additionally, maybe no shield toggle: they turn it on, it stays on until it runs out?
    Those are just my ideas.