Alert Win Rates

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Gobbu, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. OneShadowWarrior

    For the sake of alleged balance, it was pretty obvious they overnerfed the TR and with time the NS/NSX weapons have boxed the TR out. I pretty much switched to VS or NC, it is hilarious watching them get Sanc locked on several servers all the time. I know it’s not the TR players fault either.
  2. Demigan

    Really? Why is it so obvious? Got proof?
  3. pnkdth

    Because it leads to conclusions supporting forgone conclusions.

    So because I promoted other factors this means I think equipment is irrelevant... What?

    I have no idea what you mean by the other point. Why would Server Smash affect winrates on live? Just because they choose NC in a competitive event does not mean they'll abandon their original faction.

    A very one-sided approach here. There is also the possibility I raised before and the fact the Magrider was so s*** when crewed by a single player they had to use gunners or hop around seats. Something which seems not to even be considered by other factions. Since we must ask a lot of questions about the Magrider, we must ask ourselves why NC/TR feel it is so fun and effective to spawn more tanks with 1/2. Clearly, it is much more fun to drive NC/TR tanks because why else would so many do it? I mean, TR tank drivers must be crazy about their MBTs. Vroom, vroom, indeed, since they pull about the same MBTs per player this mean they do not need more tanks to go up against VS... And so on. It is very easy to find patterns when you decide something to be true.

    I have problem with changes that also reflects how they're being used, i.e. I do not want to see a faction which often uses twice the amount of players in a single vehicle to penalised because they other factions can't be bothered.
  4. Demigan

    We can narrow it down to only a few conclusions. All the remaining conclusions are in some way tied to the Magrider being superior.

    If they had to use gunners, why would magically more turn up for the Magrider? The fact that the driver has less reason to pull an MBT because of the main gun does not mean there's a reason for the gunners to suddenly jump into the gunseat. That gunner will want something out of it, fun and/or effectiveness.
    If the drivers hop around to the top-gun, then there's less actual gunners and the vehicle isn't actually 2/2.

    Also just FYI, the VS pull just as many MBT's per player as the NC and TR. The NC and TR do not spawn more 1/2 tanks, there are simply less players willing to gun for them. Why would there be less players willing to gun for them? Well effectiveness and fun factor will again pop up here, causing the Magrider to have an advantage.

    I have a problem with keeping the status-quo because it's the status-quo. IE I do not want to see a faction which often uses twice the amount of players in a single vehicle because the reward is simply greater to keep this greater reward. It should be equal for all parties involved. This can be done through nerfs, which isn't a good way to do it as we've learned time and again during the updates of this game, or through buffs, changes and additions to the systems we have in place.
  5. YellowJacketXV

    Also, OP, I do not think PS2Alerts is the best website to use anymore. It appears as though the last recorded alerts on their website were all the way back in 2018 and utilize a legacy average.
  6. YellowJacketXV

    I'm gonna take this time to complain now too.

    NC mains, I don't think you have any right to complain about win/loss rates when the playerbase has basically abandoned TR save for folk who play it ironically. On Emerald there's not a day that goes by when I can visually see on the map a series of battles all on the TR front all ranging from 48~96 or more on both sides while spying the one or two "maintenance" battles on the VS/NC front. On Emerald, the NC refuse to fight the VS, the VS knows this and thusly keeps **** at a perpetual 2-front war on TR. Its almost like some unspoken truce, which is not actually a truce it's just once side being stubborn and the other taking full advantage of it.

    https://ps2.fisu.pw/control/?world=17
    The result is quite obvious. TR can barely get a foot in the door. I would move servers but I have so much invested into my Emerald character that I can't anymore. The NC win plenty on my server and I argue that their weapons are actually best in slot for any infantry character in the game. Try stepping into the TR court and doing anything I triple dog dare you.
  7. pnkdth


    Yes, statistically it is. With the caveat we also know, regardless of why, it is more often crewed by twice as many uniques (2/2). Now if the argument might be they swap seat then I gotta say we can conclusively claim VS players are more skilled cause if you can't bloody hit a single player Maggie when its driver stuck in the 2nd seat then, well... I don't know. Not to mention all you gotta do to throw that Magrider off is keep moving since when the player goes back to the drivers seat he'll be showing you its **** and/or be disoriented. Not to mention the Saron/Aphelion both require you to spend some time in the turret which in turn means the primary ain't firing anymore (yet still seem to preform quite nicely!). Not to mention the performance of secondary weapons aren't performing all that much better.

    I believe it is a response from the knowledge that previously the Maggie had a less than jolly good primary + strong secondary which lead to way more 2/2 Maggies whereas the other factions had a net gain in sticking to many primary cannons (especially the Prowler which were infantry farming gods). I believe that's also the reason for why despite VS having the same MBT pulls per player it is also more condensed and purposeful. Obviously it is also effective (or it likely wouldn't have caught on to begin with). I simply find it interesting that the practice persists despite all the changes to MBTs.

    I would think it be awesome if all factions were balanced in this way, i.e. rewarding players who use their MBT to the fullest. I would much rather see a buff to the Vanguard and NC MAX though rather than making all MBTs feel like crap. Also, ever since I saw that Vanguard with Harasser physics... A man can dream because that would have been so damn sweet. Maybe should be toned down some it would improve tanking by so much and you wouldn't have to be scared of playing with mobility on VS' side either.

    As a designer (UX mostly) myself, I think it is supremely important to create things which does not only work well but FEELS great as well. Players should want to jump in a MBT, they would look forward to learn to fly, and so on. Like with weapons which sounds and feels right I do better with. It doesn't make sense but it serves to make me more invested. I mean, the Artemis is my most used weapon and it was on the face of it horrible (I wish I could claim I auraxed it before it was buffed but I was about 30 kills off). The 143/652-698 model just feels "right." But I digress.
  8. YellowJacketXV

    For the MBT discussion (which should probably be its own thread) ever consider that VS just might have more duo friend groups or Outfits that follow orders?
  9. ZDarkShadowsZ

    The software still records up-to-date alerts. Just that the last developer update was from January 2018 is all.

    The update included a Reddit post, which was informing anyone who uses PS2A that it may have a few niggles because he's been struggling with motivation to make any adjustments/improvements as he works as a programmer, he was finding it difficult to motivate himself to program at home as well.
  10. Demigan

    Let's ignore our differences in why and focus on what we are going to do about it.

    If the Vanguard is going to get Harasser mobility we would need to give all vehicles such mobility. Or at least the 3 MBT's and the Lightning. It would instantly push combat to a much more fluid style rather than the stand-off combat we've had so far.
    There are some things to consider. The Vanguard would need a lower maneuverability than the other two to keep it's faction-specific nature, but it would also mean that the other two get a much easier shot at outflanking the Vanguard and hitting it in the rear. So how could you keep the faction-specific capabilities without making the Vanguard much more vulnerable?
    On the other hand we could give the Vanguard some movement-related abilities as well. If it counted as a heavier vehicle it could deal more damage when ramming the other tanks for example, assuming you can ever hit them with your tank. That wouldn't be enough to offset the outflanking ability of the other tanks but it would be a start.
    The Magrider also has that annoying physics problem where if the top of it's nose hits the ground the game says "now you are upside down and hitting it with 60km/h and we'll instakill you". That's usually not much of a problem unless you are climbing rough terrain but with Harasser mobility this would be an extremely common occurence. I would love it if we could just get rid of upside-down damage to start with and give all Engineers a flipping tool to put friendly vehicles back on their tracks after a few seconds of usage (or flip an enemy vehicle that is really not paying any attention at all, which means you get an infantry fight around the flipped tank before the crew might be able to flip it back).

    What might be even more surprising: Won't the Lightning become the most powerful tank in the game then? We already see on Esamir that control of the Techplant is by no means required and you can kick the owning faction's butt with Lightnings. It's a secret stroke of genius that the developers made a tank that is perfectly balanced as the NS variant. It's cheap enough to be worth it even when fighting other MBT's and it's firepower, speed, size, maneuverability and health are all very well set up against each other. But if it got a Harasser's movement capabilities with it's already formidable capabilities it might just start dominating the other 3 tanks. Can you imagine what a nightmare hitting the Lightnings small frame would be if it was zipping around you like that while cranking out craptons of DPS?
    • Up x 1
  11. Demigan

    Yes I did consider that. There is ample of proof that it would highly unlikely that the VS would be equally skilled at almost every single piece of NS equipment in the game but suddenly be superior in leadership across all servers in the world. Also why would the VS be equally skilled at the Lightning weapons but suddenly pull a bunch of skill out of nowhere the moment they touch a Magrider, only to drop that the moment they touch a Lightning again?
    And if it really is just more coordination in arranging people for your gunseat then why does the VS do this exclusively for their Magrider and not for any other crewed vehicle they own? Bit of a very specific skill that they can only arrange more gunners for their ES equipment but not their NS equipment.
    • Up x 2
  12. pnkdth


    Yeah, I'll sign off on that.

    Perhaps it doesn't have to be harasser physics and I really do not want to relive the days when a pebble was the Magrider's biggest enemy! Another approach worth examining I think is the synergy between main cannon + secondary + movement style of the MBT. For example, if you give an MBT a shotgun secondary then there should be a primary cannon which fill this purpose AND it would give both the shield an offensive role while also giving the Vanguard the proper brawler type role it should have. It might also establish the factions in the sense of VS = mobility, NC = hit hard and will knock you out if you try and wrestle with it, TR = high ROF and scary chain-guns.

    It really is a shame how boring the main cannons are and how little they've added there compared to secondary guns. So many interesting ways to give tankers a proper vehicle meta to engage in.
  13. Tigre

    The NC all they want is to farm until alert starts, by then it is too late to win most of the time. so the VS and TR take all the area. The NC have one or two good team leaders but thats it, the other outfits. it is not the weapons or armor, it is the players non tactic comp. Connery NC large group leaders are the worst.
  14. Tigre

    also harasser for the NC with the Mjolnir can easaly beet the minigun Harasser we dio it all the time.