Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Chibknot, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Corezer


    I remember when the AH used to be the worst AI but the best AA a couple patches before it went full auto (not OG, that was TOO much against vehicles lol it would decimate tanks like they were paper)

    Those days were the best balanced the AH had been. it still wasn't a rotary but u could at least support others in fights and had a shot if u got the drop on them. it wasn't a PPA but you could get some kills against infantry that wasn't suspecting until they got their lock-ons. Now it's basically a PPA with less range cause people whined about asymmetrical balance.

    The air game would be in a much better state if all the AI noseguns had *some* AA utility. The counter to air was supposed to be "pull your own air." according to all the vet pilots, but half the aircraft cant engage aircraft and so they ignore each other to farm infantry, and then get jaded and quit flying when someone shows up with a rotary and you're as capable as a toddler at defending yourself while you hopelessly attempt to run all the way to WG.

    So of course your only choice to for viability against other aircraft are those lock-ons and coyotes everybody loves... then the AA pilots quit too, and you end up with the game in it's current state where air largely isn't there, and hardly anybody wants it to be cause every death involving an ESF (even the pilot's) feels like ur getting slapped by that God damned parrot with his cheese sticks!

  2. iller

    Can definitely corroborate this ... I'm a C-Tier pilot at best but back when I started putting a dozen or so hours into AirHammer and Hornets... the Therm-Vision was letting me Spar directly with Burster Maxes to keep them backed in a corner. (That's pretty unfair counterplay design IMHO). ..and G2A Heavies, they were mostly all nothing but a Greasy-stain on the Ground -waiting-to-happen
  3. JibbaJabba


    I pay money for X. Now X is gone and I have Y. Give me back my money.

    It wasn't a subtle adjustment. It wasn't like some 0.01 tweak in CoF on a Carbine or something. They actually gutted out the primary feature of the item. And no, it wasn't a broken feature. It was working exactly as designed.

    They refund in similar circumstances but didn't here.
    • Up x 1
  4. DatBoi

    I think the argument can be made that Thermals were not changed, in that the base mechanics are identical. Merely the target changed, whereas with Nanoweave and Lockdown the raw functionality is not the same as it was.

    That's not to say it was necessarily the right or wrong decision to make, not providing a refund for them, but there does exist the reasoning to abstain from giving a refund the playerbase whom purchased Thermals with or without certs. Regardless, the decision was made at DBG'S digression without need of any justification.

    It sucks for the players that had them before and especially so those who were not able to abuse them for long prior to the change, but in my own opinion at least no one is owed anything.
  5. JibbaJabba

    The argument that thermals were not changed does not hold water.

    Let's not play devils advocate with this one.
  6. LodeTria

    The real power of A2G stuff is knowing the bases well. Knowing the most likely locations of infantry will save you a lot of time of finding them, so the point buildings are a good place to start.

    If you're just getting used to flying, try doing A2G on base defence's first since you're more likely to have spawn room flak to help against rival aircraft & inversely don't have to worry about spawn room AA at all. Also don't go to very large fights unless your faction is the one over-popping.
  7. Exileant

    :confused: It is one thing to stop solo farming by adding enough A.A. types to fill a car garage, but then to stop the ability to SEE warm targets with thermal vision? That is quite another. I think you can get it back if you find the golden implant it will always be on but hey you can get it back I believe. o_O A solo fighter is not just going to sit there and rack up kills unless the other team is full of passive players. All it used to take for me was 3 kills to have 5 sets of A.A. gunning for me. :( I was upset when they changed it too because it took some of the reality out of the game, and was the SOLE reason I bought them. :eek: Thermal had MAJOR draw backs like it does in life. It was hard to make out terrain in high impact situations so it did not always serve your best interest to use them, and night vision was the polar opposite. I did not think they were broken at all. :D They would get you killed more often than not if you were a new, because you could SEE a huuuuuge clump of targets instinct would tell you to fire, darn the danger. :p 3 rockets and 5 ground locks later you TRY to run buuuuut.... Hahahaha!
  8. JibbaJabba

    I have the golden implant. Doesn't work. It disables when you're in any aircraft or vehicle including rumble seats.
    • Up x 1
  9. Exileant

    :D Over all the tactic will be the same. Know where you are going to attack. Have an escape plan and route in case you run into other fighters, and have a staging area picked out for on-the-spot, uncontested healing/cover, to allow heat to die down. o_O Now that you cannot see, keeping your distance and your ears wide open are your best friends. :) Listen for the general direction of where fire is coming from. Once you get that locked down move out from cover. While still keeping your distance try to pick out muzzle flashes. ;) Once you spot those you can swiftly go in and try your luck at bagging some flesh. :eek: The speed of this will vary according to your skill and ability to spot your targets. o_O I typically try to come in low and fast at an angle different than the last. Being unpredictable can be more important than your aiming skills.

    If your targets backs are turned then you have that much more time pan and target. :p Or you know, spray the ground AROUND the target.:D
  10. Exileant

    :D Thank you, that is good to know. o_O I will no longer be looking for THAT.... :mad: (SPITS)
    • Up x 1
  11. DatBoi

    I disagree. Enemies (and allies? I dunno) are still highlighted when the optic is activated by aiming. The only difference now is the type of enemy. The base mechanic is no different.

    I think it's worth considering both sides of the argument.
  12. adamts01

    There's no arguing this one. Thermals were anti-infantry optics bought for anti-infantry guns. Now we have anti-vehicle optics on guns that were since skewed even more heavily towards infantry-only.

    I happen to agree that old thermals on AI guns were OP. But there's absolutely zero excuse for not giving out a refund. None whatsoever. That single decision of theirs keeps me from buying anything else in this game, and I'll remember that decision if I ever consider spending money on another Daybreak game. I'm a lost customer on principle, same as with Battlefield 5.
    • Up x 2

    Really, stop whining. This is just an adjustment to the game. How much bugs was it? 10$? Do you smoke and put this on comparison? Ya I understand that you are pissed, but really get over it. I would love to play the AI guns back these days, I am unable to accept anyone saying these where good days. It was such a ridiculous infantry farming. Even clips about the old AH, five hits on an enemy ESF, kill? Really this is great bs.
    Most optimisations DBG does I enjoy. CAI? well I like the autospot of any aircraft. So new pilots don't get instagibbed by vets. Coyotes from CAI? no this is crap auto lock on mechanic with such a wide area, not good.

    But whining about the thermals? Really they are still very good, drawback you need a shoot me dorito instead of having these targets running around, no please don't make yourself a joke and stop whining.
    • Up x 1
  14. Skraggz

    Adamts01 main problem isn't he wants his OP toy back, it is that he dropped a few bucks for a virtual item that he got to mess around with briefly then they changed it. It has nothing to do with the function of the item but rather there is no promise that the item you buy today will be the same tomorrow statistically or mechanically. Ease up on him a bit, I'd be a tad salty as well... even if the said item was stupid broken.DBG could have refunded those that purchased with dbc or at least half refunded, dB still gets their money in the end.

    In fact I was upset when swarmer received a nerf, I bought it with cash just because then a little bit later it became utterly useless. Glad it's somewhat back to its original state.
  15. DatBoi

    Well clearly there is, as I am actively doing so. :p Thermals highlighted enemies upon activation, Threat Detection highlights enemies upon activation. The mechanics just didn't change, though it seems we'll have to agree to disagree.

    Don't think I'm arguing Threat Detection is still useful, it rarely would be, but it doesn't justify a refund. Not in my opinion.

    I imagine refunding Thermals would probably cost them a fair chunk of revenue. And if they only gave back certs players who spent cash would be upset, or refunded everyone who just bought them X time periods prior to the change, everyone else would be unhappy. One could make the argument that players would spend more money in the long run than was saved by withholding a refund, but that'd be a risk few businesses would often take.

    Then there's always the argument that players who abused an extremely overpowered piece of equipment ought to have know the risks of the balance hammer and in cases wouldn't "deserve" a refund. On top of it all, Threat Detection optics are still subject to change, maybe someday they'll be returned to a much shorter ranged version of the original Thermals.
  16. Liewec123

    Yup, but there are some settings that can't be manually changed and are tied to the "overall quality" setting, annoying things like fog that are a huge self nerf,there is no way to play on ultra without them, which is why most won't play on ultra.

    the most competitive settings for infantry play are the lower ones, which is why most people play on low and then max out render distance (which is just terrain) and textures etc, but these also have lower infantry render distances making them terrible for A2G AI, when you're making fast strafing runs the infantry simply pop into existence 50m in front of your face!
    Which is why I recommended switching to ultra for an extended A2G session ;)
  17. JibbaJabba

    "The only difference...."

    That IS the difference. What good are thermals on a HESH, CAS, Banshee, Hammer that do not highlight infantry? That is the reason the players purchased the item. Now it does not do that.

    The fact that it still does *something* is irrelevant.

    If someone sells you a laptop on Ebay that doesn't work, the defense of "oh, it can still be used as a doorstop" doesn't fly.

    Whether you agree or disagree that a refund was in order is a different story. Let's please agree on the basic facts to avoid this conversation being annoying as all get out ok? There WAS a change to the item. Period.
    • Up x 1
  18. Campagne

    A difference in use but not in its mechanics. DBG has said they only consider refunds if an item's mechanics are changed, such with nanoweave. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all of those weapons still damage armour regardless?

    It does exactly what it did before. Not something entirely new, we didn't go from Thermals to Night Vision here. Thermals to Thermals, like I said I'm not arguing it's usefulness. Canister went from pathetic to slightly less pathetic to actually pretty good then CAI came along and made it bad against infantry so that it could be bad against armour, again. The weapon is still largely unchanged even though the pellets fan out like never before and the per-shell reload was cut. It's pretty bad and often struggles to kill and is by all means not what I wanted from it pre-CAI. But it's still the same base item even though it's much worse.

    A minor change. No change to the baseline mechanics. What about what the shotgun changes did to the Jackhammer? Went from solid killer, king of shotguns, to a suppression-cannon. No one asked for a refund there, but I'd honestly take one!
  19. Exileant

    :D You were only farming fodder if you were stupid enough to stand in huge groups that were already being attacked. Back then those were good days. ;) What makes now cool are the new toys; the fact that you now know the weapons so well that anything they do, no longer will truly affect you; o_O Implants, and them finally unlocking things that were locked for years on the PS4.... Still waiting for mining and Ants....

    o_O Ada is right on the fact that we needed a refund for them because they are literally on every weapon I have and I no longer really need them to be. :eek: They get you killed. You can now see a tank but not the 5 people just out of range looking dead at you.

    :p The only people you killed back then in air farms were newbies. :D Sure you might get lucky and bag an 84 or even a 90, but I assure you they made your life a nightmare because they hid somewhere with 4 friends and lit you up with A.A. every time you tried to double up on the flesh fountain.
  20. JibbaJabba

    Dude. You're just playing devils advocate. Arguing to argue. I warned about this some posts back.

    You know the thermal scope changed. I know it. Everyone knows it. Yet here we are on whatever stupid response this is pounding out more paragraphs of hot air. Why?

    Player buys thermals to see infantry. Now they can no longer see infantry. How is that so hard to understand?

    My productive discussion energy is now exhausted. What a waste.

    All I have left is annoyance that would just surface as unproductive flaming so I'll just jet instead. Why you people on this forum act this way is beyond me. Petty.