Aircraft vs infantry is out of hand

just gonna post what i and others have suggested many many times in this forum

- nanite costing ranged av infantryweapons have been often a suggestion, which do higher damage than their non nanite equivalent but can be used less often (like only up to 4 times with missilebelt f.e.), f.e decimator dumpfire but with higher velocity and less drop and/or(but preferably both) a single missile style masamune that is wireguided like the engineers av turret but aagin less drop ..

- saron equivalents for the other factions as a precision dependant vehicle AA option (heck could be antyanything realy)

- higher pitch on weapons such as the mbt maincannons or the lightning cannons .. maybe halbert and ES equivalents ...

- more options to the lightning, sunderer and harraser with coyote or hornetstyle misslelaunchers or even AA lolpots ... and aforementione saron equivalent ... (for the sunderrer only as rear turret option )...

- give the lightning a walker equivalent that focuses on AA and AI and balance any walker around that, balance the skyguard to do respectable damage against any vehicle (primarily from the rear) or aircraft and ballance any other flak around that (that includes burster as well)

- let esf´s have ONLY ONE weapon option and these get ballanced accordingly and if neccesary the weaponchoice blocks the fueltankoption ...

- make ESF´s MORE ACCESSIBLE to fly .... allow yaw with mouse ..
allow strafing, remove the need to constantly ascent pressing the spacebutton repeatedly
allow toggle for velocitypercantagesettings ..

- offer more turretoptions (flak, coyote, saron or halbertesque) to the engineer and/or give the existing ones higher pitch ...

- actualy have balls and give medics and infiltrators av grenades, feel free to remove C4 from medic or make it AI (no antimax, same change for engineer and assault as well) ... and no, unless fully dedicated that won´t make the infil op against vehicle´s on foot, you rather would need a small group even with stalker explosive crossbow ...

- give the medic a primary AV option (grenadelauncher or rockletrifle or archer .. preferably one of the first 2)

- allow ammobelt to increase grenades of underbarrelgrenadelaunchers ... heck maybe even underbarrel shotguns if they don´t already ...

at least for now i personaly am against coax guns for mbt´s and lightnings .. i would rather see infantry capable of besting vehicles and air first .. then maybe have them added if neccesary ...

also .. yes i kinda posted almost every change i personaly wish/agree with for this game .... ....

All of these arguments can be flipped to infantry with their AV and saying they don't want to play the vehicle game game. All those lock-ons and Flak users aren't playing a game with aircraft users, not playing together and just using them for target practice.

The only way to have a combined arms game is to force people into vehicles, rather than catering to infantry-siders who want them removed or neutered to the point you can easily ignore them. Doing that results in vehicles having no role & no point, like now, where an infantry-only redeploy zerg is more valuable than a living, moving vehicle one.

that is as far away from combined arms as you can can get ... ...

Then we have vehicles with no role & no point. What good is supposed combined arms when 2/3 of it doesn't matter? How combined arms is it really if only 1/3 actually matters and the other 2/3 can be easily shrugged off?

mmm, no. Can't say I agree with that.

Infantry and Vehicles have a much better balance. Remove the banshee for example and insert a HESH lightning. Infantry already carry the weapons to deal with that. Most won't have to switch classes or really stop doing what they are doing (for long). The engagement heavily favors the Vehicle (as it should) but some teamwork can compensate for this.

With the Banshee... Nope. You're really gonna have to stop doing whatever it is you're doing if you want to deal with it. The alternative is to continue to have a crappy play experience so that the pilot can have a fun one.



I think all of these problems stem from some early overhauls in the game. Lots of new players whining because they want to do the cool stuff free right away instead of invest the time to do it. Back then the imbalance was FAR worse. Aircraft and vehicles were utterly lethal to infantry. Infantry equipped to counter them were equally lethal (the decimator would panic an MBT if you caught it in the back armor.... bursters didn't deter, they killed).

The "solution" to this lethality was to restrict the vehicles: You couldn't pull an MBT, Galaxy, or Liberator from *every* base. Only certain major facilities. You had a timer so you could not chain pull vehicles. You also had a vehicle spawn resources (nanites) that were in a separate pool from aircraft or infantry.

the thing is that the other 2/3 can NOT be easily shrugged off .. throw the 1/3 out in the open and they get shredded by the other 2/3 in any way possible ...

the role of vehicles and aircraft has always been firesupport and a forcemultiplyer ... aside from the sunderer they never have been THE core component when it comes to gaining territory ...
allow infantry to fairly combat vehicles and aircraft then maybe bases can be opened up to allow vehicles to enter and offer that firesupport within bases ..

i suggested vehicle capturepoints that have natural cover ( hills, large rocks, wallpieces ruined buildings etc.) instead of buildzones, no vehicle terminals or infantry spawnpoints but a sundererdeployzone ..

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...re-vehicle-captureable-bases-outposts.250905/

also take a look on the suggestionlist i made before (secondlast post from me before this one) ...
most of thse should be fairly doable ...

With the multitude of different styles of engagement it's rather hard to pin what should and shouldn't be more effective. You could chalk it up to "realistic" comparison but it's not gonna stick cause that's not exactly what the game is based off of. It can't or else you'd be looking to redesign the game from the ground up. It's an arcade sci-fi shooter, and keep in mind: none of those are dirty words.

I feel it's in the right place as a guy that quite dislikes air. It's effective enough to ward off any air I encounter and if they dare to stick around they better have a very high skill level cause I'm going to make'em regret it. I'd like to boost the range of AAA a bit to reach out and touch them where they can me and I feel that alone would drop their survivability down a quarter at minimum. There's a reason it was ticked back as hard core as it was. Perhaps a little more leniency wouldn't hurt to keep the hovering types from sniping from out of range which is annoying, but if I've ever wanted air gone, they're gone.

Do I always kill them? No. Do I kill a majority? Yes.

What I see complained about, and I hate to accuse anyone of it, is more a lack of want to adapt. Heaven forbid you have to take a moment to rush over to save your comrades from the air threat when you just wanna grind infantry. How dare a combined arms game have multiple types of threats that require different tools to defeat.

Is it annoying that it feels like no one wants to swap to something to get rid of air or notices what I feel are easy to spot threats? Sure. I've gotten annoyed at some obvious moments as my buddies I'm discording with will attest to, but we also have no trouble adapting to whatever is needed. If stopping that air from showing up and being patient for 5 minutes will drive them away and allow our guys to push up. So be it. It's a tactical game isn't it? I keep seeing teamwork touted but then I see stuff like this which reinforces what I see in game. All the shouting for "being tactical" but no one wants to take the initiative on making that tactical move.

This sums up the problem. It's a simple arcade shooter. OK, not my favorite way to go, but it is what it is. But then we're supposed to have a dedicated AA tank sitting on the hill, with nothing to shoot 99% of the time? That's pretty lame, even for Arma standards. Flak just doesn't fit this game. It has a simulation role in a dumbed down shooter.

Dedicated. I often roll back into a spawn, a 30 second process at the fastest and 1 minute at the worst, change my weapon on my vehicle of choice, and roll out to pop them. Else I get a role change at a sundy nearby, or else hop into a AAA turret.

It's not the same as going to your dentist for a root canal.

Also let's remove guns. Simulation use guns. We shouldn't be a simulation.

Dangerous line of thought you're bringing there.

Honest question, do you actually play this game? I'd love to be able to change vehicle weapons, but that's sadly not a feature. Maybe you've been gone a while and are confused?

So yes, especially post-CAI, a Skyguard is a dedicated AA platform.

Pull a different vehicle. Obviously. Roll the old one onto the pad, change the weapon, spawn a new one. Despawns the other. No free kills.

Did you know the pad despawns vehicles? While we're on the topic of "Do you even play?"

Isn't that literally sacrificing additional nanites, like double, if if you re-pull that quick?
You know, sacrifice twice that ESF's price it didn't pay for the engagement outcome, get no EXP typically.
The same as if we died to it, and wanted to have a tank afterward.

Sure. If that worries you, pull a heavy from a sundy with a lockon. Usually limits their exposure time by quite a bit unless they're in a large assault group. Just the beep makes'em move away normally. The nanite cost isn't something I'm generally that concerned about these days in comparison to the older days. Little roaming to make sure the battlefield stays clean generally gets me enough nanites back to pull whatever I want even if I pull a skyguard. Not the most glorious amount of MOUNTAINS OF CERTS, but it helps the effort in getting or denying base caps.

Perhaps damage to air rewarding a few more certs would be applicable instead as an approach to the situation?

I mean, I've had little trouble driving them off even with just basic gunfire if it's the occasional loner. Coordinated group strikes? Expect any vehicle to get in there and mess up a group. Hell any vehicle fitted to the role properly can go on a murder spree with little cost if you keep'em alive long enough. Air's faster and more mobile, but if it's that easy... Why don't I see massive amounts of it more than say... ground vehicles or infantry? Why don't I encounter just ridiculous amounts of them? Why do most I DO see except the exceptional crazy sideways flying lib die horribly?

Again, I wouldn't mind more range on the AAA to zone'em away when I take AAA of some sort, but put it in perspective. If it's that overpowering, why aren't more getting into them?

That means, your enemy ESF in the engagement, essentially in the best case situation for the land unit, cost you possibly 700 - 1050 nanites just for showing up & leaving, on top of any kills it made.
With that tactic, the ESF returns, and it has the best chance of completing removing your entire nanite supply without paying or losing any itself.

A lock-on, has several flaws;

• It needs 3 entire lock-on users, to land their shots on the single ESF.
• The ESF must stay in the engagement area during the lock, and flight.
• The ESF must not have FS, or it will take every single missile infinitely.
• The ESF must not have flares, or it will hard-counter the entire weapon, leaving you unable to even use the weapon.
• The ESF out-ranges the entire Lock-range.
• The weapon has the same horrid experience for the ESF Pilot, as Flak does.

In comparison, the ESF is getting kills, EXP, and is able to reach any engagement it wishes inside a minute.
The land unit, in the example however, completely removed from getting practical EXP, vulnerable to all threats upon getting a dedicated & specialized weapon system incapable of killing intended target even.
This land unit is also unable to reach any engagement is pleases, unless Re-deploying, which doesn't work for vehicles or maxes.
As well, to switch out to a dedicated load-out, for best results, requires a Local terminal nearby or pad, and for vehicles options:
Throwing the entire ESF's nanite price tag at the terminal for something that only drives away the ESF.
For the same nanites, the Pilot is given a vehicle that reliably kills any target it pleases, and will survive the engagements.
You don't exactly sacrifice 350 nanites of Flying vehicle to pull another flying vehicle, to simply have the entire reason for said several hundred nanite payment vanish.
But land is expected to.
With max units, a 450 nanite investment, with the slowest speed, and numerous counter-measures, you can at least switch the weapons without paying a Liberator's entire nanite-investment each time.
But even with that, Unless camping a terminal, in the field, you are without the capability.
And in the field, with the AA, you are near unarmed or barely armed against ground threats: with your entire purpose, to engage air units which disengage, leaving you only with ground-threats for the majority of the time, that you must run from.
These ground threats, as an AA unit, have the same speed or higher; That's in a Tank or an Max unit.
The Air unit however, can disengage & pick any fight on the entire map as they wish.
A tank does not stumble onto an air unit unable to fire back - nor unable to escape.
An Aircraft however can however find tanks that are either crippled against other vehicles to scare off the aircraft, or completely unarmed in a practical sense, compared to the Universal weapons on most aircraft.
An ESF is able to be armed with AV & AI at the same time, with their AI AOE Pod secondaries able to destroy armored vehicles.
Said ESF can also replace their nosegun with an AA variant instead, that is still capable of harming any target, while also keeping their Pods.
They can even switch out their pods, for Lock-ons of varied types, while keeping an AI nosegun.

An 450 nanite MBT, if they switch to an AA gun, loses 50% of their AV or AI firepower.
Their AV weaponry, typically is sub-part at killing infantry, but vehicles are such a threat, that the AV firepower is the best option.
As enemy vehicles are more likely to be engaged or chosen to be engaged.
No land vehicle can dictate the fight with air:
If an Pilot doesn't like their opponent's set-up, they can out-run anything but themselves.
If a Pilot finds a target, they are unable to be escaped past miracles of terrain, which they can know in advance of.
All Land vehicles are reactive to Air, even with AA, You must sit around waiting for one to wish to engage.
For they can disengage without fail, unless instantly dead by sheer volume of fire.

The glorious issue with not removing or terminating the enemy asset is quite simple;
The enemy is still in area, still armed, has full nanites, likely a kill streak bonus, and isn't at risk at actual death to the dedicated counter-weapon; While it packs a lethal AV or AI, or even both, at the same time, that will effectively kill their target faster.
So the ESF achieves their entire goal, is 'warded' off, loses no nanites for the result.

If we did this towards tanks or infantry, we'd be basically incapable of actually stopping the attack for even a minute.
And tanks would be endlessly shelling, and destroying allied vehicles; As rather than kill them, we can only drive them back, a second or two distance from us, or other allies.
That is Air, as any distance for an aircraft is a second or more of travel; Half of them have speed boosters, which enable them to go even faster above terrain that would slow motion on land.

Where do aircraft go, when we deter them? To exposed allied lines, and they return, rarely losing their crafts.
Unless they screw up so hard, or go so deep , that the system can't save them: Anyone else would've died long before.
An MBT drives into a mass of targets, it doesn't have a 50% heal on a click, and can't escape the combat zone & range of all enemy weapon systems in a second.
If it engages the enemy, it is quite difficult to pull out, let alone in Close-range; Air has no trouble with this.
You see an ESF get within 20-40 meters, where they get hit by a incredibly low velocity rocket launcher.
Something, if they flinched, would miss; As they get so close, and sit still, as rarely can they be punished without this manner of folly.


AAA at extreme range: Is a series of "You can't aim this ****" , and you do chip-damage that the people can't avoid.
So for them, it's a constant barrage of small bits of damage from places they possibly aren't even engaging or near, a hex or two away: as they don't have long-range cover.
From the AA perspective, you are typically sitting around, praying air comes, and for actual certs; Is stupid enough to sit in a cone of fire, instead of attack people not sitting around in vulnerable AA tanks for an Aircraft to choose them for a dueling target.
Most of Air victims, are people not wanting to stare at the stars & clouds for an hour for 0 certs, or those occupied with combat between land units; Something that is constant.

Can you honestly say, in a middle of a firefight between your side's tanks & infantry fighting enemy tanks & infantry, that you'd ensure an 350 nanite AA tank, or 450 nanite Max is desperately trying to avoid 98% of the field's combatants, or needing guards for those units, to protect them from 98% of the opponents on the field?
That's manpower to protect something, from everything else on the field, that is incapable of stopping the Air attack, unless it makes up a good portion of allied forces.
In which case, there's so many people, that Air has attacked several times: so people needed to be sacrificed to sit in vehicles, vulnerable to every threat including air, and be unable to actually attack the enemy without it being suicidal.

A Skyguard, is useless against any enemy vehicle.
It must be protected - it must also avoid enemy vehicles, and even infantry AV.
If a battle has a Skyguard, that skyguard is typically gaining nothing, but is a target for ground vehicles, as it's an easy kill.
Mean while, Air if it strikes, will still survive the thing, as lone pilots, or will completely avoid the area:
In the first, the Skyguard is useless in the grand scheme, as the air achieved their goal, and escapes.
In the second, the Skyguard is unable to help the battle itself against the land threats, and is unable to even earn certs.

In both cases, the Skyguard is basically gaining nothing, and Air is still profiting.
As the skyguard is so specialized, that any general build will destroy it, and by being identified, it will not get targets, unless said air targets are either so well to survive it anyway, or too cocky.

You guys are so focused on kills and certs that you sound like pilots.

Lemme just stop you at "No land vehicle can dictate the fight with air" there. It's called the skyguard. It says no.

Again, for the "OMG IT'S EVEN MURDERING THE CHILDREN!" screaming I see in here, I don't see them doing much more than picking off folks caught out of the group or unaware. If even a single AAA unit shows up I watch'em disappear. Why is that? Only the really crazy good pilots stick around to continue to pick here and there.

Also, that goal can be anything. If you wanna keep moving those goalposts, fine. It's goal was to harass the enemy ground forces, IE: the armor column, and then move away after they've been shaken and no longer can move forward at full speed. That's what I see a lot of them doing, and it's darned smart. Again, if that's an easy thing to do, why do I not see just enormous hordes of them? Instead I see hordes of tanks. Hell sometimes more than infantry. Why not ESFs then if they're the bane of all existence?

And again, "SECURE THE KILL! SECURE THE KILL!" gets you no where. I believe I saw you pushing for more objective play in another thread, so what's so different here? A personal grudge against a few bad experiences against an ESF? I get blown up by them decently often, but it is usually punishment for roaming as I tend to drive harasser often and tend to get into the enemy's face even if I'm alone. If they catch me out in their territory, I tend to die. I almost never see them in my territory on their own murdering hordes of armor like the doom and gloom here would suggest unless they have a friendly armor column with them. Now a good solid run with pods on a mass of infantry not watching him come in... Well I kinda expect to die if I'm a part of that infantry. Often if they're hammering us back within say... the spawn room, we're already losing in the infantry fight and they're just further insurance.

Also, it's called getting creative when using the skyguard. I've snuck my way into odd positions near the enemy with my escape route in mind and ambushed many an air vehicle and killed it. Extremely rarely do valkyries escape my flak. Libs if they're awake tend to, but I'd say that's a 50/50 kill rate for me. Gals tend to out tank me, but they're certainly not staying in the area unless they intend to abandon it to death anyway. ESF's die somewhere around 80% of the time I'd estimate. If you're having trouble, you may not be aware of the lead you need on the skyguard. It requires you to land a large number of shots, yes, but it's doable.

Now useless in the fight? If you lack tactful thinking, maybe. I tend to use downtime to hammer on vehicles from range. The more time they're looking at me, the less they're hitting my buddies that are going to be murdering them. It's also a BIG OL' marker to anyone paying attention in friendly armor that "Hey, something's here. Follow tracers." The sound is hard to miss. I've also drawn enemies into traps with my mines or friendlies fairly often as they move in for that "easy skyguard kill" people seem to think always happens. If you get caught out, that's on you for getting too focused on one thing. A quick swipe of the turret lets you know what's around in the air, then you watch for ground targets, then you swipe the air for a look again. Being lazy about being aware of your surroundings is what I see gets people killed often.

I also tend to point blank infantry with the skyguard. It can actually get kills. It's not easy, but it's doable. At range good luck, but if you surprise that C4 fairy by backing up and leaving him in the open. Bless his little soul, there's not much he can do. Same with... nearly anything really if you're a decent driver.

Also, I don't need someone to sit and protect my butt in one. If I need to fall back, I'll use my teammates for cover, but actively? No. Do not assign extra cost where it is not required.

And as for a skyguard being present in a big ol' fight. I mean... It's rare that I don't see one. As a harasser driver, I'll often be that guy to notice one in a bad spot and drive up to warn'em that he's out on his own but we'll run some interference and let'em know to run if something we can't handle wanders his direction. They've helped killed sundies and gotten that kill before. It's not as useless as you think if you're willing to help during certain situations. I've killed a maggy when it had too many targets to engage. It ignored me pounding point blank into the rear to engage the other vehicles.

I'm not saying it's the next tank of doom, but it's far from defenseless if you're aware of what's around you and use terrain and timing to your advantage. I've lost count of the number of stealth flash fails I've caused when they thought I didn't hear them coming up. Just can't be super focused on one task that you lose all sense of what's going on.

So here's a deal. Buff the range on AAA by juuuuust a hair. I remember when this stuff was hotly debated and was around when it got nerfed. Was around before it got nerfed. I remember the absolute murderfest air faced with just a range buff on the AAA. They were no longer able to participate in any fight if even one flak gun was around. They'd start getting hit at such long ranges that trying to dive into anything meant they were basically suiciding in the hopes of a few kills. Only the really dedicated guys stuck that out. Air practically didn't exist.

As it stands now, I'm still not having trouble killing them or getting rid of them. I still get my kills. And I tend to be able to leap back and forth between vehicles or hell classes for free to get rid of them. All but where a major assault is happening. If air's super coordinated in a group and murdering before rolling away, then that's on the players for banding together to watch out for one another and target saturation. Note that I've never seen them stick around without vehicle or infantry support, however.

EDIT: Oh and heaven forbid we get something resembling class specialization in this game. You know, something unique only one class can do. Better to make everyone do everything right?

The Skyguard isn't able to force the engagement.
The air can literally leave in an instant, to miles away.
If an ESF decides to engage the Skyguard, or any vehicle; That vehicle isn't able to disengage, the ESF can't be outrun.
The grand reason there are few pilots is, from the air controls, from the horrid skill curve.
Like it's an odd set-up.

If you can reach any battle in the entire map, at once, why would you pick a fight where you are taking constant chip damage, over a fight were you can murder freely?
A Skyguard is vulnerable to other vehicles, and even infantry to a degree.
So while it sits around, and air avoids dealing with it, Lone-Pilots mind you, the Skyguard's purpose... is to what?
Spawn, and have the entire dedicated target not choose to engage, leaving it just with what it will die to.
That is how specialized that equipment is.
Mean while, the cheapest aircraft, has twice the versatility, numerous built-it features, twice the weaponry, and for the same price.

The point of secure the kill is simple:
Is it effective to drive away the enemy armor, when it lost nothing, and will return?
If they don't lose the tank, they have literally only gained from the encounter.
The threat also will then, if it doesn't return having lost not even their nanites for what is apparently a loss, they will then strike another allied position; Which will either cause the same thing, or be massacred due to a lack of tools.

I engage aircraft with my archer, my rifle, my pistol, and damn well any weapon I know will work, in any environment.
As that is a damn threat to the entire battle, and nearby regions;
Harassment of enemy forces, without losing your asset once, is a severe boon.
Now imagine how many skyguards, instead of AV vehicles they pull, AA maxes over AV or AI Maxes.
The constant land forces, now have enemy nanites specialized in the wrong field, the moment they spawned them.
When an Aircraft chooses to remain or is a constant, only then are those nanite investments on the field, valuable.

As otherwise, we have Tanks & MAX units, whom we must protect, from a dynamic opponent, whom is rarely needing a replacement aircraft.
Which they can get & travel from the warpgate: So this threat will be endless, if they choose it to.

Air unless a Liberator, much like HESH Tanks, prefers to slaughter the easiest target. Infantry.
Tanks in the field are attacked, as are Sunderers, just not as often as Infantry.
As why not focus on the fastest & simplest kill?

I am aware, of ambushing, and setting up multiple lines of fire.
This however means, you are waiting for Air, and are their choices for actually achieving anything.
IE, You have incredibly over-achieving aircraft flying without a thought through regions, and being intercepted.
You are pilots who pushed too far, and didn't check their escape route.
Put those people into a tank, and they die long before they tried to escape.

Poor opponents, aren't what I expect.
Yes you can chip into armor, and if they aren't incompetent, they can effectively destroy you.
The problem is however; If you're engaging ground forces, the massive sky above you isn't watched.
If you are facing the wrong direction, any pilot has that much more time to engage & disengage.

IE, I've fought a lot of incredibly PITA A2G pilots: and even more who, try to force ground to pull AA, and then leave. Repeatedly.
And I'm happily murdered pretty much any tank, let alone an Skyguard, with whatever I have had on hand.
Killing isn't my problem typically; Flak is however ineffective unless Air is incredibly stupid.
I found the Kobolt is a ton better at ESF Murder than a proper AA gun, which was hilarious one night.

If we buffed Flak range..
We'd have Pilots suffering (and I don't mean sarcastically) from unavoidable chip damage from the ground, possibly a hex away.
If they're flying high, they're likely visible at long-range.
If the flak isn't far enough, then you still have them out-ranging your dedicated weapon-system.
If it far enough, flak is designed to deter by a Long-period of exposure to it; And if you have multiples, this unavoidable barrage goes from chip to instant explosion.

As Flak is so easy to use, that it can't be effective, compared to the AI, AV, and AA on the aircraft.
As then you couldn't use those vehicles, since someone is pointing an massive-detonation-range weapon, somewhere.
Let alone that it works from spawn, for Maxes; An invulnerable room.
Mind you, they leave that room, they are basically dead in a second from an ESF.

That's the interaction of Flak type weapons.
It's a horrid exchange; As they can't dodge it as Pilots, and the G2A Gunner needs an absurd amount of time.
While having to specialize so heavily into said Flak.

I don't have a problem with specializations, when they aren't one-sided.
The ESF is an ace at any role.
The Skyguard's job is to deter an equally priced asset , while every other dedicated system is to kill or destroy.
We don't pick a Kobalt-Armed vehicle, to scare infantry away from a position that we must guard all day.
We pick it, and kill infantry, which achieves the scaring, a lot better.

First thing, if an ESF has killed you in a skyguard... What are you doing? I mean that as bluntly as I can put it. I've died to some really skilled libs that used terrain to their advantage, but unless I was out numbered by a fair lot, I have not died to ESFs head to head. Libs, little more often, but not so much that I'd be annoyed. I do wish they'd get rid of the belly bounce technique bullcrap, but other than that, fair enough as far as I'm concerned.

Hell, I've driven off air with ground weapons by armor angling off nearby rocks. Be aware of your surroundings and when it's time to run or when you have little choice but to try to react to the situation and make the best of it. Sometimes resourcefulness might surprise you like a few ESFs that thought they had an easy lightning with an AP cannon only to have it suddenly smash into a rock to angle up and snap shot them. Death comes in many different flavors in Planetside 2.

Also I had to look up what PITA was. So many acronyms used these days.... Yeah, I've seen those folks. They strike at opportune times then take their leave. Smartly so.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but the general theory behind air is to move quickly beyond the enemies reach in as much freedom as possible and strike at targets fast and get them killed fast before retreating, thus saving you manpower and logistical support for little overhead. Am I correct in assuming that is what air is about? If so, is that not what air is currently doing?

I'm no lover of aircraft. Hate the darned things. But so far I don't see them as being too unbalanced except for the belly bounce. Perhaps if they actually COULD one shot me, but I've gotten away from them as often as they've killed me when I have no weapons to truly kill them.

Most of the time, I don't see them living very long either. There are, again, those really skilled players that you could hand a rock and they'd come back top of the class in kills, but generally I see them getting blown up as often as I am in the harasser when I make a mistake or engage the wrong group in the wrong place.

You're also missing another point to the equation. Air is visible. They can fly through the air and get anywhere fast for a quick strike before retreating cause... that's their role. Much as the tanks have theirs, the infantry theirs, etc. There's one other thing to keep in mind. They're vulnerable to EVERYONE as they fly through the air. Anyone can shoot at them provided they have a weapon that can damage them and can angle it up at them. Tanks are low to the ground, harder to see, harder to hit. Harassers move quick, low to the ground... Flashes have stealth. Infantry have indoors to fight from.

Good pilots can scoot along the ground until it's time to strike and then scoot along it as they leave, but unless they're very keenly aware of their terrain, exposure time could mean death. It's often that I see them blowing up personally. I'm sorry that your AAA isn't doing its job apparently, but the AAA I witness or bring forth generally tends to. If I die repeatedly to an aircraft, I tend to stop dying and turn to react if it's within my power to do so and infantry aren't stopping me.

Say they are. Go to another base, grab a vehicle with AAA or a sundie to resupply/spawn at and get to a position to fend them off. You don't need the ability to do so at every exact spot on the map. Adapt, learn, position, flank. Air shouldn't have their heads handed to you on a silver platter. This is coming from a dude that hates'em and hates running them. I respect the good pilots that bail me out of trouble and the ones that I get into trouble against. Cept the belly bouncers... That group can screw themselves.

I'll be blunt; ESFs used to need 2-3 Skyguards.
Pilots have stated, you need 1-2 or three, or to get into an ESF if you want to kill them.
Do you ever see Air, cooperating to the level of ground operators, or even talking to ground allies? But it is said, Coordinate coordinate, 3-6 Heavies, 2-3 Skyguards, against a Lone Pilot.

ESF is 350 nanites Viable against any target, with near any load-out.
350 Dedicated AA tank, is 350 nanites, and you must pre-position ahead, of an aircraft capable of reaching any position by any route with barely a noticeable difference in travel time.
That ESF, let alone Liberator, is reliable in their role & elimination of enemy nanites, to enemy units - before relying on terrain.
That highly Dedicated Specialized Skyguard, against an equally skilled opponent, is scaring them off by weapon design.

If you are leveraging terrain to angle upwards into the sky, to hit that aircraft; It must be static, lower than it should, or unlucky.
As that terrain isn't everywhere, is reliant on that angle & aircraft lining up; It is not a reliable situation.
I can kill an aircraft with a pistol, it doesn't make it reliable.

I am paying 350 nanites, and kitting out an entire Tank for Anti-air.
My AV & AI load-outs, are vastly more effective at taking on equal or higher priced enemy assets..
My best AA Load-out, is best at driving away an ESF in a wounded state, or having no targets for the majority of the vehicle's existence while spawned.

My damn Archer, is my most reliable solution to enemy ESFs, and it's far from practical.
But I can earn certs reliably with my Archer, regardless if they're MAX units on the field, or vehicles, or Air.
It's specialized to kill Maxes, but this tool is also effective enough that you can reliably use it, let alone against the intended target.

The Skyguard should be like the Archer.
Not flak-based, but a Skilled anti-air weapon, capable of killing the target when applied, and since it's not as mobile; You can expect some secondary capabilities, against the more numerous & common-place threats.
As otherwise, having specialized that far into engaging a target-type, I'd expect to have that specialty measure into effectiveness.

As right now, the Archer is the dedicated Anti-max weapon.
It also however, works against armor reliably enough, works against infantry reliably, and is effective enough for practical use.
While being specialized enough that it is the premier killer of Maxes.

Right now, if you can aim an AV weapon into the sky, and adjust for the velocity & angle, it gets better results than a dedicated AA platform.
For equal nanites of the target or the AA platform.

In Summary, if AA was like the Archer, I'd be perfectly fine with it.
As it's specialized, but capable enough to be used in other fields.
As right now, you pay equal nanites, for AA, as you do AV or AI, and get less effective results.

That's why I miss the pre-CAI Skyguard. It still had the annoying flak mechanic, but it could deal decent damage against heavy armor and Harassers at point blank range. It was actually fun to take on an AP Lightning in a Skyguard. You had to get the jump on him, and out maneuver him, but it was possible. That gave the tank something to do while air wasn't around. CAI took a huge step in the wrong direction with that vehicle.