Air Hammer balance discussion (+ ideas for new A2A primaries)

I've seen it mentioned time and time again in forum threads. People seem to think that the AH is over powered - so let's have a discussion about it.

I am a BR 59 (ingame [ABTF]Seb on Miller) who have logged 101 hours in my Reaver. I'm a member of an Airborne Outfit who daily discuss ESF balance, and often try out new Reaver configurations to optimize which loadout fits your playstyle.
At the moment I fly with Air Hammer and extended afterburner tanks, because i think its fun getting up close and personal with the ESF i'm dogfighting, and the AH is, for me, a fun weapon to use in that situation. One argument for the AH to be OP is that an anti infantry weapon should't be effecting in A2A, but i'll get back to that. The fact remains that the AH is a weapon that can be used in dogfights. The fact also remains, that the weapon is useless in dogfights until you have Upgraded it to at least 5-6 shots, and preferably 7 shots.

Then consider this: It costs 1700 certs alone to get the 7 shots in a magazine (not mentioning the SC or certs to buy it, ammo upgrades and optics). Any person willing to spend 1700 certs just for uprading the weapon to be useable is 1) A very high BR player to have the certs to spend, so the person will have a great understanding of how the flow of the game works 2) Very dedicated to flying, for being willing to spend said certs on the gun. So we are dealing with a Vetaren who is dedicated to flying here. I put it to you, that this person would do just as well in a dogfight with a Rotary than the AH. And I believe that people get the impression that the AH is OP mainly because it's only the very dedicated and skillful pilots who use it. Thus making it appear that a person with an Air Hammer will kill you more easily than the average pilot with a Rotary.

The question of if the AH is completely balanced compared to the Rotary, that I can't answer because skill always will be a factor. I can only say that in my experience, i'm more effective with the Rotary, due to the AH being completely useless on distances further than close dogfighting. I don't even feel like the AH is better than the Rotary when you get really close - but I use the AH because it's fun. So I believe it to be balanced the way it is.

I propose the following. Change the description for the Air Hammer from being an anti infantry weapon, to simply being an Airplane mounted shotgun. Then i Propose, give the TR and the VS a new, empire specific A2A primary for the ESF. Give them something that fits with their themes. Give the TR a minigun A-10 style, and give the VS a gun that shoots purple party lazers. And lastly, give the NC an A2G primary, similar to the PPA and the Banshee (which in my opinion needs a buff, both of them - but thats a whole other discussion).

I think this is the right way to go about it. Don't nerf a weapon that in my eyes is balanced in the air game. The only reason i think it's unbalanced, is that TR and VS don't have an equivalent.

Now consider this:

Can the other two factions achieve a similar TTK and kills-per-magazine on aircraft with their anti-infantry weapon variants?

I am quite aware that the other factions Anti Infantry weapons can't achive that, which is why i proposed the following

On a side note, the TTK stats on the AH is very misleading. It suggests that you would be able the hit every pellet on every shot. That is neigh impossible in a dogfight situation because the spread is so huge and random. The only situation where you can do that, is on a hovering ESF. Where a upgraded mag of rotary will gib it as well might i add

I like this idea, bump for interest.

It doesn't take much thought; you take the TR Banshee, turn it into a shotgun and that's it.

The AH was supposed to be just that, anti infantry.
Yet you can barely feel the "explosive" pellets

I can vouch for the "skilled pilots use AH and make it look OP" theory.
I've been stupid enough to upgrade my AH up to 6 shots, which takes a non negligible amount of certs , and believe me, I'm not that much of a threat with it (though It's super fun).
The teamate I fly with, who is, him, a skillfull pilot, easily gib ennemy ESF, far better than I do.

un-upgraded AH is totally worthless and you won't see anyone using it that way, which indeed means it requires some dedication to use the AH.

Though it's currently the true FOTM on NC-side, from what I see.

As SebDollar has already pointed out, the AH only has an impressive time to kill when you're right on top of an ESF. If you apply the same assumptions you make about AH accuracy to a Rotary Cannon it has the same ability to blow up an ESF in one clip, in under 2 seconds. On top of that, the rotary cannons can do it from much further away.

Consider some of the limitations of the Air Hammer:

• It has a bullet velocity of 550 m/s (default guns are 750 m/s, rotaries are 650 m/s)
• It has a pellet spread of 1.25 degrees (default guns have a CoF of 0.3 degrees, rotaries have a 0.5 degree CoF)
• It is the only ESF weapon that has damage falloff; its 175 damage per pellet gets lower over distance (all other ESF weapons have the Direct Damage type, a 300 damage bullet will do 300 damage at all ranges)

Before you get all Forumside on us here. Remember the AH, is abysmal against infantry. It is NOT an AI weapon that can fight air. It is basically an AA gun that is basically worse than the stock gun against infantry. The PPA obliterates infantry, people think it sucks, until they get hit by it, 6 shots, and you're dead, and flak armor doesn't do ****.

I think the intent was for the Air Hammer pellets to have a small AoE against infantry, similar to the Banshee. They currently don't. You can have your reticle directly on top of an infantry player and the pellets can land all around them, dealing no damage. It makes the gun pretty random against infantry until you upgrade the magazine size.

the AH caught my eye back when i bought it with certs because it was NOT described in its description as an anti infantry weapon. both the TR and VS variants had the term anti infantry in description. AH did not. with the damage drop off and spread, the effective range is so low that the rotary performs better in an AI role anyway.

anyone with complaints should give it a lenghy test

This is comparing an apple (anti-air rotary nose cannon) to an orange (anti-infantry nose cannon).

I'm not currently an advocate of any changes in one direction or another, but if we're going to be comparing effectiveness, let's make sure we're looking at the same kind of fruit, first.

Her is what you are: A guy who spent money on exp boosters/membership, who found an absurdly overpowered faction specific weapon that takes out libs in 3 shots. Now you want to keep it!

All I can say is GL!

I addressed the M30 M-AH in my guide in my signature.

I personally dont feel it should have a TTK Rivaling the dedicated AA nosegun. It should be viable but not better.

Both the M30 M-AH and the M14 Banshee should have their projectile AOE's buffed in terms of size and or damage and the AA damage on the AH should be brought down a mite.

I also think the Rotary should do less damage vs. infantry and vehicles.

The point people are trying to make here, is that the AH isn't remotely effective against infantry, so it is best compared balance-wise with rotaries. If it was viable against infantry and aircraft to a comparably lethal extent, then we'd have a problem. But it isn't. Actually, the irony is that the rotary is a far more efficient anti-infantry gun than the AH.

At first I weren't going to reply to this - but your comment ressemple most I see on the forum crying AH OP, so for the odd change that some of those people aren't just faction trolls, here goes:

Firstly, it does not take out a lib in 3 shots. It takes a fully certed AH 2,5 magazines of good hits to kill a liberator. Remember you need to be ridiculously close to use the AH and get a hit on each pellet - also the gun has damage drop off. So if a Liberator is in a position where i can get so close, and they are so far from freindly air or AA that i have the time to unload 2,5 magazines including 2 painfully slow reloads, then a Rotary/rocketpod combination would make short work of the Lib as well. Especially if its a fully certed Rotary and fully certed Rocket pods, like the AH has to be fully certed to be effective.

Again, remembering that this is a pilot with enough experience to put in the certs, and enough dedication to "waste" so many certs on getting a single gun to a usable state.

Edit: And you seem to have missed, that the point of my post was to give a "similar" empire specific weapon to the VS and TR

If you have a counter argument, i would be happy to hear it.

No, it's pretty valid to compare them. I can aim at infantry with my Vortek rotary and kill them in three bullets with high precision.

Well, I'm glad some NC have been able to shoehorn a use into it, honestly.

Personally, I think whichever developer thought "Aircraft mounted shotgun" and actually decided to implement it should have the quoted phrase tattooed across their forehead. In hot pink comic sans. As a permanent reminder why not every idea actually needs to be implemented, even if it fits the perceived faction flavor.

Be fair. The Air Hammer only three shots a Liberator when you load it with depleted hyperbole ammunition and I'm sure you're aware that's in short supply. The forums can't generate enough hyperbole to meet demand.

The Air Hammer is really a weapon that shouldn't exist. As an AI weapon you have to be so close and hovering over your target that any HA can easily rocket you. As an AA weapon you have to be mind-numbingly close to an ESF to land any sort of significant hits on it, the projectile speed is so low it takes a ridiculous amount of leading, and even then its unlikely you'll land more than half your pellets. Its only real value is against large, slow/stationary targets like Liberators and Sunderers.

The crux of the issue is that the Reaver is a large target, slow to move, and very unmaneuverable, and you have to put yourself in extreme danger to be able to use the Air Hammer. But since the Reaver can't take more damage than the other two ESF, despite its shortcomings, the AH is more a liability than an asset.

Can the Reaver turn as fast as the mosquito? Can it fly as fast as the Mossi? What kind of question is this. Also what everybody who says the AH is OP ignores is the thing that the AH is a very risky weapon, you need to get close to you target whatever it is, what also is kinda stupid on most targets. High risk, High reward. Have you guys even certed in your faction weapons and tryed to get them to work?