Air/Ground Balance, why it's hard, and what can be done about it.

Since Beta there hasn't been a state of the game where air and ground have been properly balanced.

When ground units were very powerful against aircraft they cleared the skies. Since aircraft can't capture territory they became pointless when they were easily shot down to actually help ground units do their thing in any meaningful way. When air units were buffed to be able to actually remain in the sky and serve a role there by providing powerful close air support to ground units they became the dominant unit in the game because in any fight the second you lose the air war you might as well go home.

Currently the game ends up looking like this quite frequently:

When one side has decisively won the air war ground power just turns useless. Yes, there is a tank shooting down a slow moving airplane in the video, but there was also a Skyguard to the left who got nuked before taking down a single airplane.


So, why is air/ground balance so difficult?

• Aircraft always have the initiative in a fight
• There is a relatively small window of time to attack an aircraft passing overhead
• Ground Units don't always render for aircraft.
• Anti-Air weapons are overspecialized.
• Anti-Air weapons don't require much skill to use.
• Aircraft have no way to use range and cover to mitigate damage taken as engagements scale up.
• Air combat has a high barrier of entry.
• There is only one kind of air superiority unit.

The initiative is important in a fight, because it's the air units that get to pick when to fight and who to fight, and that makes a huge difference. If you see a tank that's already smoking and you have full health you can decide to dive on him despite knowing that there is a Skyguard nearby, but if you're low on health you can leave and repair. It essentially means that the ground units are always on the defensive against air.
There is also a very small window for a ground unit to actually attack an air unit that's trying to get away, so unless it does a very large amount of damage it can really only scare the airplane off at the very best and not get any kills.

The render distance on HAs and MAX Units is obviously a huge problem, because those units shouldn't be considered the most effective against air purely based on a technical limitation of the game over actual intended mechanics.

The overspecialization of Anti-Air units and weapons is a huge problem, because people obviously feel that its not fair to be stuck with a single job if they can't even do that job well. A fighter does a better job of killing fighters than a Skyguard, while still being able to do a better job of killing everything else. The frustration is clear here.
Most of the anti air weapons currently in the game require very little skill to use, and as a result they are not very rewarding for the people using them. It's not really possible to get good at AA, which turns it into a boring numbers game.

Aircraft can't engage from further away and rely on cover more in huge battles, like ground units will, which makes the numbers game problem even worse. 1 Burster Max does very little, 5 or more quickly become very deadly. Little individual skill for the AA gunners plus little ability for Pilots to adjust to the scale of the engagement leads to a very shallow numbers game.

Air combat in general has a high barrier of entry because you need to pull a fighter before you can fly at all. That presents a huge problem to air balance, because there isn't an equivalent to infantry in the air. There is nothing to shoot down that isn't expensive and has a cooldown, so there is nothing that can be fragile without causing people a lot of grief.

This also leads to the problem of there only being one single type of air superiority unit. Fighters exclusively fill the role of being the airborn anti-air unit, and that makes them incredibly strong due to being able to fill that role very well even while retaining a lot of anti-ground firepower.

What can be done about AA?

• Redesign of specialized AA units.
• AA weapons that require more skill to use but have a higher variance in their effect.
• AA units that have short render distances should have short weapons range.

The most important aspect to fixing the ground to air balance is redesigning specialized AA units. Any unit that does nothing else but shoot at aircraft simply can't be bad at shooting at aircraft, but even if your unit is superb at attacking one very specific enemy, it isn't very fun to use if you can can quickly clear the map of that type of opponent and then find yourself with nothing to do. Overspecialized units shouldn't really exist if anyhow possible. Even in WW2 small caliber flak was used against infantry, and large caliber flak was often turned on tanks, and they didn't do it to entertain the flak crews, but because it worked. There is no reason to make a game where the range of application for a rapid fire high velocity gun is narrower than it ever was in real life.

AA weapons should require more skill to use, but be more rewarding when you do it well. For example the Tankbuster on the Liberator is a weapon that is a lot of fun to use against fighters. It can destroy a fighter in a single burst if you make all the bullets hit, but it's very hard to do so. Unlike something like a tank cannon however, it's not pure luck whether or not you hit at all, even if you can't hit with all your shots, a few of them will usually connect and do some damage. This type of weapon is a lot more fun to use than what we currently have for Flak, because it really encourages people to get good with the weapon, and rewards them for excellent marksmanship.

Currently AA Maxes and HA SAMs are pretty annoying because their effectiveness is entirely contingent on a technical limitation (not to say bug) that allows them to take shots at aircraft without revealing their position. Honestly, this simply shouldn't happen because it makes no sense. You can't even see where the shots come from if you're under attack by an unrendered unit. That simply isn't a valid basis for what makes a good AA unit.


What can be done to balance Air combat better

• Flash Equivalent Air vehicle

Simply put, air combat suffers because there is no cheap way to get a unit that can participate with the kind of speed you need to actually give chase to enemy aircraft while still being cheap enough so that losing one really isn't a big deal. Having a 25 Aerospace Resource air vehicle that can be specced down to no cooldown would significantly improve this. For one it would make AA gunning a lot more meaningful if there were smaller targets that can be quickly shot down without causing anyone to lose a significant investment, but it would also give fighters some competition in the air, when they aren't the only thing that can go fast and make sharp turns.

The general idea would be something like the Yves Rossy Jetman suit. You pull it from an air terminal the same way that you pull any other aircraft. It would be armed with a Basilisk, Walker or Fury, similarly to a Flash. The craft itself would not have significantly more hitpoints than infantry and can be damaged by any weapon in the game, including regular rifles, but it would be very small, with only about a 2 meter wing span. It would move at a pretty rapid pace, similar to that of a fighter, and could be upgraded with an afterburner, much like the Flash can be upgraded with a booster.

One exception the wingsuit makes to all other vehicles is that it deconstructs if you exit the vehicle. (And yes you will plunge to your death if you're not a light assault and you do that mid air) Basically the Wingsuit can be used for personal transportation, or to bud into air combat if your fighter is on cooldown or you don't want to make the commitment of pulling an expensive aircraft.

Currently people prefer pulling disposable fighters over hitching a ride in a Galaxy already, and as the Sunderer proves, troop transport is not really a valid unit role in this game, since it was one of the least used units in Beta before it was given the AMS and Aura capabilities. While transport capability is handy to have, support ability like dispensing ammo, offering repairs and potentially spawning are much better primary uses for a vehicle like the Galaxy, having the transport capacity for when you need it is just a nice bonus.

Having this extra unit would improve air combat by allowing for a disposable air unit. It would give fighters much stiffer competition in the air, because obviously a Galaxy or Liberator are better equipped to deal with a swarm of tiny Wingsuits coming at them from all directions, but it would also enhance the role of AA by introducing airborn threats that don't have to have similar survivability to ground vehicles due to the expense of requisitioning them.

Post something complaining about overpowered stuff and whine about it - 5 pages of people arguing.
Post something that tries to offer constructive ideas. Nobody reads it.

This is just depressing.

You know why it's that way? Because people are simply lobbying to have it their way, they are not looking for "balance". Those that like to fly want to fly and dominate. Those that are on the ground want it changed, and want to dominate air. You'll find that a very small percentage of gamers actually care about balance. Most just want to pwn, and want whatever they're playing to do very very well.

Just look at the population of each factions on the servers. There's a reason why the overpopulated and dominant faction stays dominant, and they usually get more overpopulated over-time. This doesn't happen because people want balance or people care to fight the hard fight. They flood to the dominant faction on the server because they want to pwn.

I really wish they'd get rid of Flakk in exchange for an anti-air rail gun for MAX's and tanks alike, Flakk turrets make sense and just need possible aim assistance, like how a space simulator gives you a targeting rectacle to show you where to shoot, because when a ship is evading in the air you can just blanket the sky in Flakk before you find a sweets pot, and that spot can jump wildly with a single 10 degree turn from an airship thats out of range already.

A super velocity rail gun would be like a sniper rifle for use against air, you can hit them while they approach, you can hit them while they run, it rewards you for being a good shot and rewards pilots for smarter evasion. It also would deal burst damage rather than piddly sustained damage.

Having the lead-indicator on flak would be nice, because it would make it a lot more accurate against targets moving in a straight line. Still, I'd be much happier if flak weapons were similar to the Rotary Cannon or Tankbuster, because those are weapons that really allow for a big range of effectiveness based on your skill.

Aircraft will get nerfed because the whiners are making a bigger stink than the rest who are enjoying the game. Seen it all too many times and especially with SOE. They're notorious for listening to the babies.

Yes, obviously the most common complaints in the game are not the result of real issues but a conspiracy of babies.

Still not a single person has actually responded to anything I wrote in the opening post.

Kudos for the effort of trying to post something constructive instead of QQing and then making a QQ anonymous club where everyone cries on each other shoulders how XYZ is OP.

Now if people would read it....but they are busy whining etc.

a LOT of problems in this game can be fixed with the addition of more vehicles...but SOE says they will only add "some" new vehicles...not very promising

Well if they increased the AA Turrets rate of fire they would overheat quicker and it would require to have more skill in using it?

We dont need no damn aim assist you can lead aircraft and hit them fine as it. Alot of people are trying to use the AA Turrets on ground forces when they should be looking UP. So many times have i seen some idiot in the flak turret firing at a ground unit when theres aircraft flying directly over their head.

I think they don't exclude the idea of new vehicles, they just prefer giving existing vehicles more options. For example a lot of people want a PS1 style tank with a dedicated turret gunner, and they said the most likely way that will be added is not through a new vehicle but a cert for the MBT that gives you a more powerful turret but also requires an extra seat.

Something like the wingsuit can't be integrated into an existing vehicle of course, since the main point of it is to provide something that doesn't match the cost and relative strength of any existing vehicle.

The hit indicator serves as your aim assist, without getting the feedback that you're hitting the enemy it would be very difficult to adjust your aim and know you're actually leading by the right amount.

I like the idea for an air equivalent of the ATV, though wouldn't it kind of invalidate the Flash? Its whole purpose is for getting somewhere fast and a plane version would likely be faster in all circumstances. Even if it was super weak to AA and small arms you could still fly it low altitude and you'd still be better off than with a Flash since you wouldn't be confined to roads.

I dont use the indicator, i go by when the flak rounds start exploding. But someone said they want a bloody lead indicator or somepoop

If your having trouble leading a target then aim for a spot further ahead and let the aircraft fly directly into the flak spot.

I love this idea

I don't think so if they come out of different resource pools.

In some ways yes, in others no. The Wingsuit can only be spawned from air terminals, so it's not as ubiquitously available as the flash. It also deconstructs the second you exit the vehicle, so you can't re-use it.

What I would personally like to see added to the flash is a little ammo box on the back of it that you can use to resupply infantry, so you can grab more Grenades, Mines etc. from one, and it becomes a real asset to lone wolf players, who can go back to their ATV to grab more ordnance. It wouldn't let you change your class, but resupply your character.

With that change to the flash I don't think the Wingsuit would completely invalidate it as a useful vehicle.

Mate that is a fantastic idea, i never fly im always on the ground more but if they implemented something like this, i'd definantly be in the air more! This has been the best solution ive heard so far

How many times can you say you've been so tight on resources that 25 would make a difference? Most of the time when I pull a Flash I've got those resources back by the time I get where I'm going, and I don't see that changing much even if those 25 were aerospace instead of mechanized.

Only reason I don't pull an ESF instead of a Flash is the timer on it in case I feel like doing some flying right after I get where I'm going, with something on as short a timer as a Flash I wouldn't even care about that.

I think that giving AA-weapons increased effectivness against ground units is an excellent idea. Not sure about the jumpsuit though.