Air exploiting the gimbal lock

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Vaphell, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. Tuco

    Good old fixed spawn points.
  2. uhlan

    Understood, but I figured folks understood that limitation and was refering to the fact that at range some targets render but are so small some folks can't see them depending on lighting or terrain. I do this all the time as an infiltrator calling shots down near or around me when spotting isn't enough.

    If you have voice and a partner that takes direction it works wonders.

    Your point is well taken and it got me thinking, how many folks DON'T know this!?
  3. uhlan

    I obviously can't speak to your experience, but I have done this many times and have found MOST zergs are NOT capable of reacting to a solid counter-attack.

    Especially if the odds are near even and those remaining in the spawn take advantage of the situation. A couple AV turrets placed right or a few tanks with good drivers can brew up a few vehicles quite easily before the zerg knows what hit them. Many times the zerg will come right at you with confidence so be prepared to sacrifice yourself on them or prepare a trap and lay some mines in your location and dare them to advance.

    Not everyone is a tanker par excellence and will fall for it. It really is that simple most of the time.

    As for an air zerg a couple of Skyguards can work wonders, but the key is to keep moving and NEVER be in the same spot after you chase an aircraft off.

    A good pilot, a good Lib pilot will note your location and circle around to smack you for being such a moron.

    Always assume the pilot knows your location and is coming back. Move around and wait for them to show back up, 10 to 1, you'll see them looking for you and you can hit them again.

    When In a Skyguard I have EOD running and radar mounted to prevent the majority of infantry "wannabe's" from taking me out.

    If you can muster 4 guys in two tanks and two AV turrets well placed it can make a really nice counter attack.

    Of course, it all depends on the odds. Some things are just impossible.

    However, if the idea is just to get the zerg to stop concentrating on the spawn it is the best solution.
  4. Goretzu

    I've never had that happen.

    The only time I've ever seen a Zerg be destoryed with a counter-attack is when one (or both) of two things happens.

    1) A lot more numbers drop into the next base than were there to defend the prior base.

    2) Organised outfits turn up to counter-attack that weren't there at the prior base.

    (or 3) which is sometimes the case the enemy that have just taken the prior base instantly disapear off to somewhere else leaving only the remenants of the force that took the base)

    1), 2), and 3) all happen regularly, but it is not the power of a counter-attack that is the issue.




    A2G seems to vary from server to server, on my main server I genuinely suspect a lot of ESP use as Air (and in fact ground from many outfits) spot you seemingly constantly, but even without that, yes 4 Skyguards working in concert are going to be an issue, 1 to 2 Skyguards vaguely aiming at the same things will likely be toast versus massed Air.

    Also one of the main issues with hover spam tends to be in low pop off peak fights where Air doing this can ridculously tip the balance (numbers-wise) without much real effort - again I think Hossin style AA turrets right be spawns would help there.
  5. Vaphell

    The idea is from the directional damage indicators, also sometimes you didn't see ****, sometimes you saw trails but no turret. Either way it's a superficial detail. Not being able to retaliate in what was set up as a strictly unidirectional encounter outside of game rules alone is the end result you really care about.
    Rendering thresholds are not an in-game rule, otherwise sniper rifles wouldn't have effective range greater than that of infantry. Vanishing shields were not an in-game rule and 5deg deadzone or whatever it is is not an in-game rule.
    All 3 cases are examples of using various engine quirks to gain an ill gotten advantage. Vanishing shields were outright broken, rendering range cheese was/is broken, this thing is kinda broken but mostly annoying. All are counterable if you try hard enough.

    That said, what would be the threshold of vertical deadzone where it becomes a legitimate problem in your opinion? Clearly the current one is not it. Some numbers
    5deg 0.875*h (diameter of 52m @ 300m)
    10deg 0.176*h (diameter of 106m @ 300m)
    15deg 0.268*h (diameter of 161m @ 300m)
    20deg 0.364*h (diameter of 218m @ 300m)
    If there is such a number, what makes it special?

    Analogy in the opposite direction: If in case of AV manas the difference between the attack range and the render range was not hundreds of meters but lets say 50m, would it stop being a BS exploit and become just a L2P issue? Where would be that threshold between BS and L2P and again, what would make it special?

    Please explain to me why you consider half of available AA, including the ones that are obtainable by noobs like 250c lockon, not working against cheeky smartasses an acceptable situation in the first place. What if you can't afford 1000c skyguard and can't fly for ****?
    Half of pro advices whenever someone says air op is just drop 1000c on bursters. Never have i seen the addendum "but be warned, libs and whales will still be able to **** on you because you can't look up"
  6. a-koo-chee-moya

    2 words
    Combined Arms
    Apparently nobody in the base you are speaking of knew what it meant. All too busy spawn room warrioring to just pull 1 measly Skyguard. The whole point of them is too be mobile flak, use it like that. Or you could have just done what your supposed to do in this game and coordinated with an air squad, but the average lone wolf can't really do that. The meta in this game is the organized outfit, and if your a lone wolf and complaining about being helpless, you should squad up.
  7. Voiidd

    Do you also want some dev to come there and /kill the lib for you. C'mon man, seriously? A "perfectly" stationary lib is every HA's dream.
    You're NC? go grab your Phoenix and lo and behold the lib's in flames in 2 hits.
    TR?Get the NEW striker and just spam in its general direction, proximity auto lock on air.
    VS? This one's trickier.... lol, not by much. You're gonna need to spawn to another nearby base and aim your Lancer, near hit-scan projectile velocity and you don't even render for the "poor" lib.

    Get a skyguard if you don't feel like going heavy rr get a valk and own him as a c4 fairy.
    Try your aim with an MBT.

    See there's plenty of ways. Simply waiting in the spawn room till someone deals with him, isn't the way and if he's somewhat exploiting this you're allowing it.
  8. Reccettear

    it would become a problem if it was that much, however it's 10° at most. (if anyone cares to travel to a high vertical wall to measure this, be my guest. should be around 5°)
    however, your anecdote aside, does anyone actually run into this restriction regulary? in my mind it doesnt warrant the risk of sending the game back to early alpha when the dev's fail to implement a workaround to tan90°. even if it succeeds without implementing major bugs, it will just add additional clutter to a code that is full of **** already.