Air exploiting the gimbal lock

Infantry cant look straight up...pilot figured the angle out. Its only an exploit if it cant be countered. You can counter it by moving.

They only way I would be willing to fix this "problem" would be to make the painfields extend to the flight ceiling..
The lib needs to be able to shoot strait down to attack its main target, tanks.

Old AV manas that didn't render for their victims due to the engine thresholds, engineers apparently had the distance figured out. Wasn't that an honest-to-god exploit? Couldn't they be countered purely by moving out of the deadzone?
It's the same basic principle, using limitations of the engine (angles, render thresholds) to make the encounter purely unidirectional.

The deadzone of infantry looking up is probably under 10 degs, but assuming it was bigger, when would it start being a "legitimate" problem? 20? 45? In all cases you would be theoretically able to move out of the deadzone but in some cases it would be 100m+ not 20m.

some math: no idea what the true value is but for just 5degs of deadzone you'd get a circle with radius of 8.75m for every 100m of elevation ( h*tan(a), tan(5)=0.0875 ). At 300m it would be 26.25m, a diameter of 52.5m. I'd say it would be a considerable blind spot to be moving out of, in many smaller bases 50m contains everything that matters. Furthermore the skywhales dropping people from the sky ceiling would by uncounterable by infantry AA in an area that is easily 100m across.

What if SOE improved rendering engine so much that they could buff infantry render range to let's say 500m (lol, i know)? An even bigger deadzone with r=43.75m, because like i said, it scales linearly with altitude.

Tl;dr of this thread: lib camps us in such a spot that we can't look up to target him, we could of course redeploy but hurr durr we cant be arsed, therefore lets call it an exploit?

To answer the original question - yes, its an exploit. Its an exploit of a functional game mechanic coupled with plain incompetence of the opponent. Just because your team is blindingly incompetent and proceeds to headbutt a locked door in the middle of an open field instead of going around it doesnt make it OP, it makes your team look like a bunch of tools. YES, you CANT use this game mechanic to counter him, but hey! You can totally use a different approach! Try it! The door wont open no matter how many heads get thrown at it!

Exploiting is only "bad" when you exploit a bug or a mechanic that doesnt behave as intended. Yes, shield not rendering is a bad exploit. Using geometry bugs to get under the textures is a bad exploit. Finding and utilising a dead zone is a good exploit, or you know, tactics.

The hover-over-spawn issue is a significant one, it is made worse by the issue that the when it is at its worst/most powerful you are generally in a position to do least about it.

In low-pop fights it can litterally be unstoppable.

so, infantry can only aim up to... 85°? 89°? well observed but something of a non-issue. there is not enough room in the blindspot above a spawn for enough libs to it down.
i mean seriously,

50ppl with one lib gun.

Why not just fix it so infantry and AA can aim straight up instead? I get it that quite a few vehicle weapons are restricted due to balance but there is no logical reason for AA not to be able to aim straight up. For instance, there is a rather large blind spot over tower bases where the AA cannot reach. Or rather, it is not blink, you can clearly see the galaxies hovering there, launching bulldogs down and releasing an never ending stream of people. A couple of outfits are using these blind spots rather extensively.

BTW, the air to counter air argument is very old and has never been a good one. The game is not and should not be designed or balanced around such a system where only air can counter air. If air is not to be attacked from the ground, then air should not be able to attack ground. It's quite a simple concept.

wow infantry players these days continue to amaze me. It like the whole world revolves around them.

Did it occur to you that there could be other players/vehicles that are not directly bellow a liberator or that u could move a few meters laterally until you can shoot it?

you would be like the 500th person to say that, he isn't listening and feels he has been slighted by the game engines limitations. I have been in the position he has been in more then once, and all it takes is one good hit to get that lib to move, and BAM! everyone starts getting a good angle on it from the spawn. its also not even an issue in bases with more then one spawn room linked by teleporter (its like people dont even know these exist half the time) since it almost always give you a good angle in most cases to hit air hovering over your other spawn, or that spawn is covered from air.

? Someone exploiting a glitch to be come literally untouchable is different, but all it takes it 1 guy to pull a Skyguard. 1 guy isn't much of a tactical disadvantage, and he can cover for everyone as well.

Someone should hand him a

The problem with many folks in this game is tunnel vision. No one wants to leave the base to counter attack and hit the zergers in the rear.

I have always wondered why folks will sit in a spawn trying deperately to get to "A" in the face of ridiculous vehicle spam.

Ok, I understand that you are getting spanked, but why don't you go somewhere else and get a tank, or a Lib.. something!

As far as the gimbal lock is concerned, yes, it can be a bit of a problem and it doesn't need to be at ridiculous altitudes either.

As for being beyond render because the Lib gunner is so high, all the gunner has to do is spam the area near the spawn or the point. This tactic is especially effective if you have guys on the ground directing your fire.

And finally, if you think folks AREN'T hacking in this game on occasion you're clueless. I don't care what you've read or heard about the "anti-hacking" software and its "effectiveness".

Still, the key in many fights is thinking "outside the box" as has been said earlier.

Most of the folks you're fighting are just as tunnel visioned and almost never prepared for a counter-attack.

if you are above 300m you literary can not damage any infantry on the ground, this is how the engine works, if your target does not render for you you can not damage them, directed fire or not.

It seems the entire thread misses a rather annoying aspect of this blind spot. Something that a few outfits have learned to use to rather great effect. That's the infinit spawn from a galaxy at flight cieling on top of a base. Add that to a decent sized fight and you'll have a pretty safe spawn. Pull a lightning you say? Well that wont survive long since the fight is outside and around the base. Lock ons cannot reach that far even if you could get an angle on it.

So what we are left with is the only viable counter to air being air. That's a pretty lame system because if you want to be safe from the ground, then you shouldn't be able to attack the ground in the first place.

I don't consider it an exploit but it's highly annoying and very very cheesy. Guess there's two solutions. Either make it so you can actually aim straight up. Or get set a limit to how far you can drop from a Galaxy. I would prefer being able to actually aim straight up. Who in their right mind would design a AA gun that cannot shoot straight up? There are no real balance issues with the system either. It's just a silly and frustrating mechanic that introduces cheese.

bursters cant look straight up, nothing in the game can actually look straight up...you can fly straight up, but you cant look straight up. This is because of the coding problems with Gimbal locking.

is this a really serious thread...

you respawn at a different base, pull a AA of any description and the liberator would be gone in about 20 seconds.

why is there a thread about this, player stupidity is not a bug or abuse.

logic is not your forte, is it.
guy exploiting av mana render range also could be countered by pulling X/moving mere 600m. Why did SOE shorten the turret range? Wasn't that a l2p issue by your standards? "L2P, that's what mana turrets do, deal with it" said nobody ever.
Same deal with a dude clearly cheesing the shield unrendering, clearly a nasty exploit - but hey, there is a solution! just take ESF and drop on him with c4 in hand or whatever, it takes only one guy to solve it! It's the same ******* principle, different degree/severity. If SOE stopped caring about the game today and shield rendering issues were not fixed, you can bet your *** it would become a part of battle meta, a l2p.

AA bursters are advertised as a staple AA and they have a huge blindspot possibly 50m across against air at 300m and much more against skywhales dropping people from under the ceiling. According to you it's working as advertised.

Calls someone out on logic use. Uses strawman arguments. Classic irony.

1. Render issues is a compleltley different problem. You have no idea where they are, so you can't do anything.
2. Your solution sheds light on the real problem. C4ing the Lib is completely unnecessary when you could pull flak/lockons/other air from a base behind the front line. Clearly their is a problem solving solution, not an exploit one.
3. Its not that hard to counter Galaxies at flight ceiling. Just pull a Lib, Tank Bust, easily outmaneuver them. You can still be effective later as well.

If you counter-attack a Zerg in the rear (usually that would involve a bit of driving around too), all that usually happens is the Zerg turns around and kills you, not that you somehow wipe out the Zerg that you previously couldn't hold off from a defensive position.

If you outnumber them or out-organise them then it is a different matter........ but then if you outnumber them or out-organise them you shouldn't need to counter-attack them in the first place (as you should have been able to drive them off from your prior defensive position).




Certainly the best way to deal with an Air Zerg is from a different base, but frankly 1 or 2 Skyguards are toast in that situation too, once the Air Zerg gets a bead on you.

Personally I think the best practical solution is more AA Turrets right near spawns as many Hossin bases have.