Air Combat is too Difficult

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by urida, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Silkensmooth

    The answer imo, is not to change the air game, but to make ESF cheaper. Its less frustrating to die repeatedly as infantry as a new player because there is no cost associated with respawning.

    The most frustrating thing for me when i was learning to fly was that i would get owned and i couldnt jummp right back in the saddle. I didn't mind the dying nearly as much as the waiting for several minutes to be able to fly again. It was even worse back then with 15 min respawn timers that you had to spec down to 5 mins, but i digress.

    An ESF with a nosegun and afterburners has been rendered less dangerous to ground than say a vulcan harrasser. There is no reason that they should cost more than a harrasser.

    ESF without wing mounted weapons now cost 150 resources.

    The skies will be full of amazing endless battles!!!
    • Up x 2
  2. adamts01

    This is so true. I always reach out to pilots who didn't stand a chance, and if they speak English we almost always end up adding each other and flying together in the future on one faction or another. Air is an incredibly small and nearly dead community, and what gets me are players intent on making it smaller (looking at you VS Connery, any of you who speak English anyway, go get your balls back).

    All that said, air could use refinement. Switching tomcats to be something more like the current Swarm would be great, that way the target could flare or reverse maneuver away, if it's an ESF, so Libs/Gals/Valks would still be good targets, maybe lessen the range as well. Couple wing reload with nose reload, so chain firing rotary/coyotes wouldn't be a thing. Remove mouse acceleration!! I'm going to keep fighting for 1/2 off nosegun only ESF.
    • Up x 1
  3. adamts01

    That was a mistake. HE still easily kills in 1 hit and now the AP is useless. I think the Dalton nerf was good for the game, but I hated seeing it happen after 3 years. Plenty of people who fell in love with PS2 and spent considerable money because of solo-libbing all of a sudden didn't have anything. That's ******, and those kinds of changes shouldn't happen 5 years in. Changing aiming from manual to automatic is a step well above and beyond the Dalton/AP nerf. It would be inexcusable and should be left for PS3 beta, if we ever see that.
  4. SixNineFour

    Ehh, not really a bastardization of physics. You clearly don't understand how RM works. It is just that in real life such a maneuver can be quite dangerous to a pilot and moving at such low speeds required to do an RM is suicidal to begin with and most planes aren't really designed to do such a maneuver and handle the stresses involved. On top of that it is such a risky move that you wouldn't an unintelligent/unmanned vehicle to do. Also, RM doesn't keep the original direction of the aircraft. A maneuver is literally a move to change direction...

    The main difference between game and real world would be that you would not brake AT ALL, to pull of such a maneuver but instead use a thruster to turn a plane around while keeping forward momentum. That is very easy to do in vacuum, but in atmosphere and gravity you need a specially designed airframe to do this without literally tearing the plane apart - something that is completely non-factor in game.
    Also realize that in game you aren't really moving at high speed relative to real life to begin with, you a moving at fast car or regular helicopter speeds even while using an afterburner. A real life VTOL jet is multiple times faster than ESF in game, but it doesn't use additional downward thrusters like every ESF has. On top of that RM is always done at very low speeds.

    Edit: Reworded the first paragraph because I didn't realize how pitifully slow ESF are compared to real aircraft.
  5. DirArtillerySupport

    Really? PS3 is going to have aiming with a mouse? :confused:
  6. adamts01

    Yep. Reavers without boost go about as fast as a modern jeep. I get that it all comes down to render range, so it works, but AA guys don't seem to grasp that. With those sluggish speeds and crazy close ranges there's no need to flak or lock-ons in the first place. Implemented weapons designed to be used against aircraft almost out of sight was a big mistake.

    I also don't get all the hate about the Reverse Maneuver. ESF are basically terribly built helicopters. They're fast enough moving forward but can't move backwards or to the sides, can't hold a hover above a target..... If I had a choice I'd easily pick an Arma helo over an ESF, and ground would never stop crying. If we got separate planes and helos in PS2 like they ask for, they'd cry even harder. It's one of those things where you just can't understand air till you commit to it.
  7. adamts01

    I hope we get a PS3, but no one has said anything about it, and they're still spending plenty of dev money on PS2. I didn't start playing this one till Connery was already ruined, so I'd love to jump in from the start if they make a new game. I really don't care what aiming system they use as long as it's fun, but they have to pick one direction in beta and go with it. Removing manual aiming at this point would be incredibly inappropriate.
  8. strikearrow

    That's what I wrote, but it would not only cause a plane to break apart (I can see building an air-frame that can withstand it though), but also stall. ESFs do not have rotors, which are required to prevent a stall in a RM. I've done the RM with drones, but not with remote control airplanes, because airplanes just stall. The closest thing to the current ESF would be the F-22, F-23, or Harrier, but they cannot even come close to doing what the ESF does. Only the Harrier can actually hover (and only at very low altitude) and it takes all of them 10+ seconds to transition.
  9. strikearrow

    Render range makes their slow speed = high speed for purposes of AA. The engagement window is the same. And I fly ESFs and I can hold a hover, fly sideways, do RM which is moving backwards in a sense, and actually fly backwards too - at slow speeds.
  10. strikearrow

    I like it, except it would have to be only A2A noseguns, not the A2G noseguns, which are very effective against infantry.
  11. strikearrow

    It's not automatic aiming that I propose, it's a small box that appears on the screen and shows you how far and where to lead the target. All modern military aircraft have such a computer that detects targets, and gives a computer prediction to where to aim based on the relative movement of the target, the weapon selected, and the atmospheric conditions. How do you think modern snipers kill people 1.5 miles away with a single shot? They have computer help.
  12. adamts01

    PS I'm drunk

    Stop comparing the ESF to a plane and start comparing it to a helicopter. It basically flys forward like a helo with a terrible malfunction. I flys forward like a helo, but can't hover like one, and can't move forwards or backwards like one. It's basically a gimped version of a helicopter, not an OP version of a plane, if you actually compare it to other games.

    That's just silly, and the Walker is proof. You can see the ESF, and anyone who knows ESF sees that there are only three ways an ESF can move. Forwards, up or down. It's not that hard to shoot one once you realize that.

    modern blah blah blah.... Stop bringing real life in to this. I can kill people from 300m (infantry render range) with my Glock. Balance trumps realism, especially in a game with such severe render range limitations. A box that shows you where to shoot takes away half the fun, and you can't realistically expect that chance that change 5 years after release.
  13. strikearrow

    Haha!!! Maybe I'll reply later.
    • Up x 1
  14. Saint-Ange

    playing and experimenting is of course the way to get skill but if you're insta gibed you don't have the time to learn anything else. it's like if an instructor brought on day one absolute ski beginners on a black slope or new snowboarders in a black iced half pipe. the day next we'll find the poor guys at the hospital or in a long chair with a cocktail.

    it's the same for infantry as for the pilots, not about the controls of course but about the learning curve. new comers get shot and most of the time they don't know how it came at them so they can't even learn from their mistakes. that's why some games are more noob friendly with cam-views.

    what would help the retention to start with would be to have moving NPC (ground/air) in the VR training zone that are animated by an AI. it would also help tremendously to adjust the mouse sensibility in a safe space.
    the training zone to the level 15 is useless if you ask me in term of pedagogy, or totally empty or there are a few experimented dudes that troll the new comers.

    the dream would be to merge the servers by regional zone, EU, East, West, .. and then have instances with dynamic thresholds opened to players of a certain level based on a mix of stats that would fit the most, with a progression. a dynamic evaluation would place the player in the proper instance and avoid returning players and the erosion of their skill to be misplaced or the new accounts created especially to pound the noobs to plague the system. if there aren't enough of population in one instance then the threshold will adjust automatically to regroup people. of course those that desire to play together could still do so in higher instances than their level (not BR but a mix of stats, remember) but the inverse could not happen.

    there would be less players in one instance than with the actual configuration if there's let say 3 instances (again the number of different instances would also be dynamic to preserve a certain amount of population on a map) for 2 servers merged but I bet the retention of the new comers would skyrocket and therefor the population on maps would remain the same as we have now rather quickly.

    the amount of data transfer would augment only on server side and by a negligible amount.

    edit: ghnn
  15. TR5L4Y3R

    Right ? keep it for the skyknight minority ... let the casual majority suffer .. because each of them has the time to practice each and every day of the week ... not like they have to go to work or study .. or maybe even both ... but sure lets keep the most annoying part of the game be supperdifficult to learn to be able to even participate in

    you can give me all the tips you want .... if the process/progress of learning isn't fun i simply stop attempting it ...
    • Up x 3
  16. Demigan

    Can anyone, anyone at all, see the immense irony of this statement?
    • Up x 4
  17. TR5L4Y3R

    for who? the guy who shots or the one who gets shot at ...
    never felt like missing being fun for me ( and i am sure neither for the majority of people) ... especialy in an area were any bit of dmg dealt with a nosegun counts ... sorry but i totally disagree on that one ..

    so either aimbox or rangeresk nosegun .. heck i am open for both ...
    • Up x 1
  18. Saint-Ange

    • Up x 2
  19. Hajakizol

    Easier to use air must be balanced with more effective aa. Improving aa now severely punishes inexperienced pilots. On the flipside the current aa is ineffective vs experienced pilots on a man to man basis. I would welcome a air re-balance buff. As long as its counter is adjusted as well
  20. adamts01

    Very true. That's why dueling at the warpgate is so beneficial. That should really be an option in part of the VR, as well as moving targets, which would be nice for testing infantry guns as well. They need targets that warp around like they have 1000ms ping, spam ADADADAD, bunny hop and crouch while shooting. They could throw in some wall hackers while they're at it so players get the real feel of how a gun will perform live.

    I'm open to both as well, as long as the dps on those things doesn't come close to a real gun, and they're not guaranteed damage like Tomcats or our huge burst area flak.

    It's not though. Spawnroom bursters, especially TR, lock down many bases. 1 Striker wrecks air, and 1 ranger keeps an entire squad away.