AF-4 Cyclone - Nerf it or bring VS/TR up to par

Sirius and Eridani are fine. Blitz is overall the best SMG tied with the Cyclone, which is even more versatile. I love the Cyclone. The only option the TR has for a SMG, is the NS-PDW, which even a full magazine from it might not be sufficient to kill a HA in time. Still better than the Failstorm and Armistice.

I've Aurax'd the Cyclone and am about halfway through both the Failstorm and Armistice. I will probably never auraxium the Failstorm.

As far as I can tell, the only real difference between the 3 is DPM. The Cyclone Has Great TTK and Reasonable DPM, the Armistice has Great TTK and Poor DPM, and the Failstorm has Poor TTK and Great DPM.

I like the Failstorm where it is; as a crutch-ier SMG for people who can't manage ammo pools, and I like the cyclone because you can reliably trade off hipfire for more lenience when ADSing, but I don't like that the Armistice doesn't have that option.

And despite not actually using the Eridani, all it would take is a slight Mag size buff to both it and the Armistice. Cyclone at 25 rounds, Eridani at 28, Armistice at 34, all with ext mags at a comfortable 35, 38, and 44 rounds respectively.

Moin

+1, exactly what I'm thinking. I would just buff both Eridani and Armistice with +5 bullets, putting Eridani at 30 and Armistice at 35. The Cyclone would now have the worst DPM without ex mags but the best with ex mags. Revert the nerfs made to the Cyclone, they weren't necessary. First gen SMGs balanced, easy as that.

This doesn't make sense, the accuracy is the main issue, DPM is just a side-issue. They could be identical DPM and the Cyclone would still be overpowered because it's got much lower horizontal recoil for no good reason - it makes no significant trade-offs for this advantage.

The second gens are for high DPM, and the main problem there is that Blitz has the lowest horiz. recoil still, Sirius is a somewhat easier to use but less accurate Blitz, and the Hailstorm is a pathetic awkward cross pairing the worst traits of SMGs - the low accuracy of CQC SMGs with the low DPS of the PDW/MKV only to get +10 rounds to an already 50 round mag.

Moin

Like it or not, the rpm and recoil stats of the Cyclone are NC traits. You can try to argue against this like many TR players do and I would even support to give TR weapons a higher skill ceiling by reducing horizontal recoil and increasing vertical recoil of TR guns across the board. But let the Cyclone alone. It already got nerfed btw.

The Armistice is a bullet hose, it has the highest dps and drops enemies quickly at close range. That's it's advantage. Problem for me atm is that you can't really use it without ex. mags because it burns through it's low damage bullets so fast. +5 extra bullets would compensate a bit for the low dpm.
I can't comment on the hailstorm, as I've never used it, but yea, I agree that from the stats alone it seems a bit lackluster to me.

This just sounds like another "nerf the god saw" therad to me.

Yes we are the NC, yes our weapons hit hard, that is our flavour, you have something differant, NOT WORSE just differant...... deal with it.

The only thing thjat makes the cyclone special is its damage, which it scrifices other stats for. Its not OP, infact the Blitz is the easier of the two guns to score reliable kills with, and the NS-7 is far better at medium range than the cyclone.

cyclone is slow..

I want this and I don't give a damn about faction traits if all it's going to be is "NC get more accurate weapons, TR gets screwed". The current faction traits were just a bad idea. However just increasing vert is an overly simplistic approach as high vertical on higher RoF/lower bullet damage would make this worse for TR than it is NC, unless of course we'd get to keep the RoF/TTK advantage. But for SMGs there is no TR advantage, Cyclone has TTK on par with Armistice or very very close -

http://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh100-10-10/la/1/27000S/28000S

It has to also be considered that SMGs all have very low vertical, so Cyclone having slightly more doesn't hamper it that much while the horizontal recoil - which can't be compensated for - advantage it has is much more significant.

With both bloom and recoil, we have to consider the total bloom/recoil per damage dealt, something NC like to overlook when they whine about vertical recoil and bloom values that are often not a real disadvantage relative to TR or VS. Taking fewer shots to kill means you need each shot to recoil more and bloom more to be balanced with a 7-8 shots to kill weapon.


Now, when TR has a TTK advantage, it's obviously fine to have lower accuracy. But with SMGs the Cyclone just has no significant disadvantages while having a major accuracy advantage.