ADS fire question

The CoF when in ADS is an approximation. In real life it doesn't work like this, no, but it's a pretty decent mechanic that you see in other shooters as well. Yes, offloading the CoF into almost pure recoil would be more realistic, but then imagine firing those high-recoil guns while ADS and how much your screen would jitter and shake...even players that aren't prone to motion sickness in games might start feeling a bit ill after a half hour of earthquake shaking on the screen during a battle.

I do think that there's room for improvement on ADS, but pushing it all to recoil isn't likely the best solution. I have felt for a while that higher-powered optics need to convey a slight CoF buff, as they increase recoil but don't help CoF making them largely useless. Seriously, I never go above a 2x on an automatic and there's a reason for that.

Maybe there's room for better ADS CoF for guns as well, but we'd definitely want small changes rather than completely re-tool infantry guns which are fairly balanced at the moment.

I have yet to feel queasy while firing the Gauss SAW (and I doubt anyone has from the God SAW either, the heaviest recoil personal weapon in the game) from ADS. And no TR/VS weapon would probably have that current level of recoil with a COF change. In fact alot of NC weapons wouldn't see very much recoil changes due to their recoil already being quite high.

Here's the endgame changes I am suggesting:

If you watch 18s into the video, or look at the snip I took from it. That wouldn't happen. Effectively ADSing at close range means a guaranteed hit on anything you line up on. This isn't imbalanced. If someone is out of your field of view (very very likely to happen in close range, which is why hip firing will still be preferred and will still have COF), then you can't hit them. But the anomaly shown in the snip and vid wouldn't happen (as it shouldn't).

Longer ranges, as in 50m+ would not be affected much. The recoil change, even a minor one is going to throw off the second-third shot off target. Remember the human silhouette gets smaller at range. Which means even small increases in recoil will be enough to throw off the target. So there is no fear of making LMG's into bullet lasers.

Medium ranges is where we would see a TTK decrease across the board with this change. And I don't think it would be much. Because to ADS is to slow down to do it so you still have to make a decision on whether to slow down and fire or move to a better location so you're not trading rounds. Also this helps newbies just as much as it helps pros. Its basically a quality of life change and will get rid of those frustrating moments of 'I knew I hit that guy'.

All I'm proposing is that we let player skill of getting their sights on target be rewarded. Not hoping for a good dice roll. And even then its more player effort than skill as I'm sure everyone here can quickly point and click their mouse. The 'skill' is in the WASD movement while mouse clicking.

You're asking for a global buff to gun accuracy. Assuming that the Devs want to keep the same general effectiveness for guns at range, every gun in the game would need an increase to recoil while ADS. You know that snap you have of the shot going wide? Instead, the recoil would shift your entire screen to line up with that shot. It'd be a bit less than that but you should get the general idea of how shaky that would be.

Also, humans are not rigid objects. Keeping your sights perfectly lined up during fully automatic fire isn't reasonable, the gun is gonna shake a little bit in your hands if it's not mounted. The CoF, again, provides a sort of approximation for this sort of effect. We don't have to work with trigger pull, scope sway, or most other types of human errors. Consider all of that stuff approximated under the CoF, plus CoF helps minimize some stuff like aimbots and the like.

If you have a better idea of how to do FPS mechanics then by all means try to implement it and see how it works. I think the current game needs some tweaking, not a complete overhaul.

It would not have happened either way, if the shooter had not started firing before actually aiming down the sights.

I play NC, I know what screenshake from recoil is like. Like I said, it wouldn't be as bad as the Gauss/God SAW for TR/VS. So there's no issue there. A little more shake then they would be used to, but with no COF, it would be easy to adapt.

Recoil covers the first part of that. And yes we do have scope sway in PS2. Use a 6x scope on something. You hold shift to steady the aim. There's even an implant to help with this. Which leads to a good idea... introduce scope sway across the board if recoil isn't enough. Makes the hold breath implant useful to class/weapon combos other than infils and battle rifles.

The point here is, COF in the early generations of FPS were there to simulate RECOIL. We have recoil mechanics, we actually don't need COF now with ADS. Hipfire is fine, I'm not touching that. COF simulates the sway of an unbraced weapon. ADS means you're bracing the weapon, lining up the sights, and getting a sight picture.

I would if I wasn't already working on another project. Personally I wouldn't be opposed to them just setting Bloom while ADS to 0 on the PTS and see what happens and how the weapons feel. We're not talking about introducing new mechanics. We're talking about balance changes that could be made in the weapon database.

I'm not going to argue that what is shown in the video is a bit... excessive... but I do have a technical question. Do we know for sure that the spark visual effect is an accurate representation of where the server calculated the bullet went? There was no hit marker, so it obviously did not calculate a hit, but can we be sure it went as wide as the spark would indicate?

Anyhow... I don't much care for the system as is, but I get what they are trying to model with it. I don't really have any solid thoughts on a better way to do it either. Perhaps if the combination of recoil, CoF, and bloom were all a bit more predictable it might not be so disagreeable? I feel like it is the randomness that really bothers people more than anything else.

I agree with Taemien at least in theory - physics dictates that the bullet will go exactly where the barrel is pointing at the time the round exits the muzzle; at which point friction, gravity, and atmospheric factors take over. But unless bullets on Auraxis are extremely poorly made they shouldn't curve all over the place (this isn't an Angelina Jolie movie). I don't agree that there should be zero CoF when ADS, but I will allow that it could be significantly reduced. I'm not sure if having different CoF for ADS and hipfire would create balance issues or not though.

Guess I'll just keep bursting until a better solution comes along.

The second scene in the video looks excessive because he starts firing before actually aiming down the sights. He therefore is subject to the hip fire starting CoF. Actual ADS CoF would not have had that much spread.

Regarding your question, the sparks indicate were the bullet hits, from the perspective of your client. Whether the server agrees with that is a different question.

Ah. I watched the video, but not closely enough to see that he started firing before the ADS CoF kicked in... I looked at the screengrab without going back to the video for context.

Hit detection is client side though, is it not? So if your client shows that's where the bullet hit, the server should accept it...

CoF is needed to simulate recoil. In real life compensating for recoil is much harder than in PS2, where you barely need to move your mouse. I suggest you try firing a 20 round burst with an 7 kilo LMG without bipod and hit every bullet at a body-sized target at 50m.

Been there, done it. As I said before, 50m isn't too hard and is closer than it looks ingame. I think we want to steer clear away from RL challenges. As I said, I am a sharpshooter and even then there are people better than that.


Overall I think the scope sway idea is a good compromise alongside slightly increased recoil. This way an entrenched dude isn't going to fire bursts of precise shots with impunity. Of if they want to they will need to sacrifice an implant slot to make it worth while. So whats the harm in letting it play out on a PTS?