Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by day ofm one, Dec 15, 2014.
Not to burst your bubble, but BF titles use the same CoF Mechanic...
Unless you're using the Orion in Hipfire mode, the Carv and Orion have almost identical stats, with the Carv having slightly superior First Shot recoil, vs the Orion having slightly superior horizontal recoil. CoF spread and bloom are the same.
I agree. If they're going to have ADS CoF, then get rid of recoil. The whole point of CoF was originally to simulate the effects of recoil. There's no need for both systems to be implemented. As you say, if guns are OP, make them kick a lot more, and/or give them the uncontrollable L/R recoil that everyone hates (myself included).
How about a compromise, everyone?
No CoF on the first shot in any stance.
Even though I would prefer no CoF at all.
Stand still and/or burst fire if you want to stay accurate. Bam now your scoring more hits over the guy holding down the trigger from 50m away because of your trigger disciple/skill.
50m ain't -----.
Being a Sharpshooter with SAW, I can put a burst shot on a man sized target at out to 400m with a M249 SAW. You unfortunately made an easy challenge to a SAW gunner IRL.
We're not talking about hip firing, we're talking about Aiming Down Sights. ADS. Meaning matching front and rear sights. Now you tell me why a round shouldn't go where it needs to go when the sight picture is correct and the weapon is properly zero'd. The only factor in this case would be recoil. Rounds are NOT going to come out of that barrel in odd angles.
The reason COF exists in FPS is because they had to simulate recoil due to poor or lack of mechanics. But we do have recoil, thats what makes the weapons rise up and back and forth or up and to the left/right. I have no problem with recoil mechanics. I have a problem with COF and recoil being a factor for ADS.
That doesn't help. There is still COF when you sit still and ADS. Recoil instead should be used to prevent bullet lazoring if that's such a big issue. Maybe even increased recoil per shot instead of bloom.
Set all ADS bloom stats to 0. Heighten recoil numbers to compensate. Get the dice out of the equation.
I'm here to play this:
Not this (not that there is anything wrong with TT, but that's where dice belong, on the table, not in PS2):
I'm just curious, when you say you can burst on a man-sized target ADS, are you talking about sitting or prone with a fully stabilized firing platform, or standing/crouching stabilizing the gun yourself with no support? While moving?
I just realized maybe CoF isn't simulating recoil, but 'weapon sway' (which is still stupid, if we need weapon sway, there's code in the game for it. see: any gun with a 6x or better scope).
Yep, that's CoF bloom. Try doing this with the Gauss Saw.
That's why NC have to burst after every 5-6 shots... Or 3-4 if they're using a 200 dmg tier weapon, and 2-3 shots for the A-Tross (which has horrid sway, amplifying the inaccuracy twofold).
A THOUSAND TIMES YES!
CoF mechanics have been outdated since Half Life 2.
The last game that I thought it was a cool mechanic in was when I played my older brother's copy of Duke Nukem 3D as a kid.
lol you're cute. It's stupid for any faction to burst more than 3-4 rounds at medium/long range. And if you're good with the gauss saw you can just use it as a better battle rifle and kill people in 3 headshots quite easily by going semi auto. NC have better ranged weapons any day.
Personally, I would prefer if they reduce COF when ADS but increase the recoil. Although I'm not a gun expert, that seems more realistic to me and allows skill (i.e., ability to compensate) to influence the outcome.
"Orion OP because I cant use CARV"?
you guys only talk about cof and recoil, but do you know what makes gunplay also pretty ******? flinch! and even worse, some day they ninja patched flinch even without being hit, with projectiles just flying by, that same supression crap from BF3/4.
I undestand that they need to keep the masses in the game, so good players have to be kept at bay, but I sure don't like it
No, Orion different to T9-CARV.
Please stop implying that something is yelled OP just because it is named.
Just because I say Orion in a thread, it does not mean I say it is OP, right?
(This is a general statement, not just to you.)
Thing is, I think such mechanics are keeping newer players at bay. The mechanics don't work how you would intuitively think they would. Seriously everyone should watch the OP's video and skip to 18s. Watch rounds fly by the target when he's lined up center mast at less than 10m away.
Stuff like that is an extra thing new players have to learn. Heck I've shown the video to friends who have been playing about as long as I have and they didn't even realize it was that bad. Many don't. I think even the opponents of changing COF while ADS don't even know and are refusing to watch the video.
And I'll dare say the devs don't even realize its that bad. You pretty much have to record the shooting and play back in slow motion to see what's going on. That's not something people normally think to do. Kudos to whomever recorded it for doing so. I think values were set arbitrarlily without fully thinking out the consequences. Which is why I call it a bug. I really really doubt a dev said, "after three shots, this weapon should shoot wildly and miss 25-45% of the shots at 10m."
If they did, I'd love to see them come in here and comment about it. Say why they did at least.
And to those of you calling this a way to curb skill and keep new players relevant. That's a crock of crap right there. Anyone can point a mouse and click. Most people have played a variety of shooters. Lets change up the gunplay a bit so new players can actually pick up the game a little quicker. Not find this crap out by accident months or even years after playing. For many players thats way too long and they've long left.
I'm usually for a baptism by fire and don't like hand holding new players. But when they get driven off by a bug-like mechanic that doesn't make sense (because no one has made an effective counter argument), then I have a problem. There's no skill involved. Its a freaking RNG dice roll.
this would be nice.
It'd feel more realistic, up the skill cap, and still maintain balance.
not to rag on your real life shooting performance, but we are talking about a game where all fire fights are compressed into the standard infantry engagement range (300m) the problem is that just slapping a crap ton of recoil onto everything doesn't do the same thing as COF, in fact its worse because now you have more uncontrollable elements, or you have a predictable pattern that can again be easily compensated for by pros destroying the point of COF, which in this game is a skill equalizer.
the point is to prevent full compensation to fully control the outcome, its a skill equalizer not just a recoil substitute. give someone a laser accurate weapon with predictable recoil and it defeats the purpose of skill equalization. in the current system you cant just lean on M1 and memorize the recoil pattern to rip up a group of new players, with predictable straight recoil you could.
so in the end if you want to have a skill equalizer on gun play you end up with unpredictable recoil (the worst kind) that simulates COF, or you end up with COF that can be controlled through trigger discipline but keeps people from going one man army all the time in a game about massive battles.
I agree, PS2 should not have even touched bullet flinch with a 100foot pole, it does not even make sense from a story line perspective, why would someone who has be rebuilt a million times over the last 200+ years flinch at a bullet impacting their shield? but "keeping good players at bay" as you say is required in a game that wants to have large battles with infantry involved, it just means a good player has to know a little more about the game then the muscle memory required to compensate for a predictable recoil pattern and shoot first.
Bullet flinch always made sense to me. I mean when I'm at a shooting range, I'll still flinch if there are lots of guys shooting next to me (to the point where I'll stop and let them take their shots first if I'm going for precision), and I'm pretty well aware that I'm not in any physical danger at all.
Bullets and guns are loud, and people will instinctively flinch when loud things are near them.
even after 200+ years of nothing but? i guess it could go both ways.
I know the engagement range is small. I got that. But... here's a snip from the video:
Now imagine you are the shooter and you are a new player. Luckily for the shooter in the video, the VS heavy fired a random rocket that didn't hit. But imagine if he used his LMG instead. Its possible and likely that the shooter if a newbie would have been taken out.
Now like I said before I'm pretty confident that most players, including new ones can put a cross hair or in this case, red dot sight on target and pull the trigger. The skill comes in when the sight rocks up and you have to compensate. In this screenshot you can tell that this is CLEARLY being done. The red dot is ON the target and very close to center mast... in fact the firer is compensating for the recoil by aiming at the left hip (our right) and letting the recoil carry it up and to the center.
However the rounds are NOT going up and to the left and rising to the center. They went WIDE right. Why is that? I can tell you why. The firer rolled 2d6 and got a 4, missing the TN of 7. Could have sworn this was a FPS. In fact I ran a test earlier and rolled BattleTech hit locations. I was able to better predict where shots would land in a Table Top dice game than I am able to predict where rounds will hit in Planetside 2, a First Person Shooter.
That makes no sense.
The rounds should hit where the sights indicate. There's no reason for bloom and no reason for COF while Aiming Down Sights. Newbies have it worse off NOW then they would with this change. This is due to their shots going in places they have no control over.
Put the control back in the player's hands. Yes BR1s will get creamed. They get creamed anyway. But they'll be shooting well enough to survive by they time they are BR10. If you can point and click a mouse, you can shoot in a FPS.
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