[Suggestion] Add dumbfire mode to phoenix

it doesnt need dumbfire, but people want it anyway.If they do place dumbfire on it lower the speed and damage on the projectile.There is already enough dumbfire weapons in the game...stick to those if you need to dumbfire all the time.

To me that would infringe too much on the default and the descimator.

My 2 cents:

This will give a significant buff to TR. Some of it was necessary, but now it's leaving the Phoenix behind as far as flexibility goes. HOWEVER, it's not that far behind.

Keep the current phoenix mechanics and change 2 aspects. 1) exiting guided mode doesn't drop it like a rock. 2) lower the distance before being able to exit guided mode to 20 or 30m.

This way, you still have to go through all the requisite steps to fire the thing. But it'll be easier for NC to shoot and scoot whereas TR can shoot on the move(unless that's changing and i missed that)

Yes and No. I can understand that concern. But the projectile is still 30% slower and it is still destroyable while in flight , so it still has considerable disadvantages in comparison to the Decimator and for me if I know I'm going to be in close range to vehicles I would still take the faster Deci over the Phoenix, just like I still pick the Shrike over the Deci from time to time as well even though it is lower damage, because I want the faster more accurate projectile. I think the same decision process, that makes a player chose the Deci over the default RL, would be the same decision process in picking the Phoenix over the Deci or vice-versa.

On a side note- Why does it matter if the Phoenix infringes on the Decimator, provided it is not better? 30% slower and is killable, so it has disadvantages. Couldn't the same argument be made between the default RL's and the Deci, yet that doesn't seem to be an over riding problem.

While not insignificant the only real disadvantage the Lancer has compared to the Decimator is slightly less damage and the short time it takes to click off 6 rounds, which is as fast as you can click and @ 600m/s in sub 100m engagements that's near instant hit scan capabilities and completely unavoidable if the user is on target (easier to aim, no need to lead or account for drop).

Obviously we really can't comment on the Striker, but I think we can assume it will be more versatile then it is now, since it will be a dumbfire and probably like the lancer do a bit less damage then the Deci and require the user to fire multiple projectiles rather then just one, but it is still going to be flexible and usable in many situations.

By short range do you mean under 290m or do you mean, I dunno, 30m?

For the same reason the Striker infringing on the Annihilator is bad. It usually ends up with one being better in more situations than the other = an upgrade. To avoid this you keep them to their own niches as far as you are able to.

It would indeed be a pretty weak "Decimator".

Generally slightly lower DPSecond and DPShot than the Decimator (much, much lower on some targets like infantry).
Vastly slower rocket than the Decimator.
Much, much, less splash damage than the Decimator.
Much, much bigger hit box than the Decimator (which limits firing and makes the below much easier)
Can be shot down (unlike the Decimator)!
Even worse flight arc than the Decimator in unguided flight.

It would be by far the worst Dumbfire option around (already without any tweaking to any potential "dumbfire mode"), without a doubt, it just would be better than no dumbfire.

While the Striker being Superior to the Annihilator is & was a balance Issue. The Striker 2.0 which was very similar to the Annihilator was not a balance or upgrade issue, but rather a problem of the weapon not being unique in function in comparison to the annihilator and basically doing the same thing. The Phoenix with a dumbfire mode would not be superior or even an upgrade to the decimator in that dumbfire function, it would still be 30% slower and killable. So while I understand where you are coming from I just do not see it being an issue, the phoenix will still have disadvantages in comparison to the deci or other RL in dumb fire mode.

If we look at the other two ESRL the Lancer and the Striker 3.0, they both have niche features, but not niche uses. They are limited in comparison to other RL launchers in that those launchers provide more damage, and only fire one projectile but other then that they are not restricted from functioning in any situation, that a standard RL would be used in.

The Phoenix with out a dumbfire mode, however is restricted not only by its niche features, but also in use because of some of those features. It has a 30% slower projectile then the Deci, 60% slower then the Shrike, it is killeable, in order to be launched the user must enter camera mode (delay as view swaps, reduced field of view, reduced movement speed) and once launched the user is frozen in place for a minimum of .3 seconds up to 5 sec., but in actuality its a little longer as the player must adjust from the screen alternating back and forth from the camera view to in game view.

Even if the Phoenix would be allowed to toggle between dumbfire and guided view while in camera mode (which also has disadvantages over a standard dumbfire and the other ESRL as listed above, while they ADS) it would be a much more useful weapon and allow it to be used in a greater variety of roles, just like the Lancer and the Striker 3.0.

Actually, I was thinking about the flight Arc of the Phoenix in a dumbfire role and I was thinking it would fly pretty much straight and true, until it hit its 295m range. While I understand, this might be controversial, but if we consider how slow this projectile is and the fact it is very obvious and is killable, even though it would have little to no drop during it's 5 sec flight time to its max range of 295m and the user would still need to transition in and out of camera mode (see below)

The other thing I have been thinking about in order to keep it balanced, is that for it to function the player would always need to enter camera mode for either dumbfire or guided view. Camera Mode already limits the players field of view and it slows them, along with a delay as the player transitions from regular view to camera view. Once in camera mode the user could then chose between dumbfire or guided mode. The animation delay from moving from camera view to regular mode could be used to increase the reload time of the Phoenix while it functions as a dumbfire rocket, so at the very least it would have the same reload speed as the decimator.

Even so, I still don't agree that it's something the Phoenix needs.

Fair enough. I think we have both made good arguments both for and against. So I will respectfully disagree.

Yep I doubt a "Decimator" that was as slow at the Pheonix and could be shot down (not to mention as noise and as "shoot here" glowy) would be unbalanced with a flat trajectory, so I can't really see how a Pheonix would be either.

The only thing I would say is that probably the Pheonix would need some hard limits on its usability as a dumbfire and arc/drop would keep that.