[Suggestion] Add dumbfire mode to phoenix

They are.

Next! Oh and btw, this is a Phoenix thread, not striker.

Higby has already stated that the damage is going to be tweaked to adjust for the dumbfire capabilities

The Striker will be a Pure Dumbfire RL. Pure Dumbfire = being able to fire a missile without the need to lock on OR have a lock on functionality. The projectiles themselves will have what is called a Proximity Lock, NOT the Launcher.

You are using math that doesn't make sense. You can't state that if a Phoenix rocket hits a target, that it will only do 67% of damage, but if 3 Striker missiles hit, they do full damage. You are making up a mathematical equation to try and help your argument.

Because he was all the advantages and none of the disadvantages. The concept of side grade is beyond the grasp of the OP. He wants something that can be both the Decimator and the Phoenix at the same time, making the Decimator completely redundant for NC. Having to compromise and choose a weapon depending on the situation is too hard.

I want a gun with the bullet damage and speed of the RAMs 50, the ammo count of the MCG and the fire rate of the SMG. It should also do damage to tanks. Because why ever bother to pick a gun depending on the situation you are in.

Striker 2.0 - you mean the new TR Lasher?

Well when you can use the rocket with out the launcher and vice versa, then I will agree it's purely dumbfire, but the two are a set and can not be separated from one another. It is a proximity lock-on launcher and is just about as dumbfire as the Hawk.

You that said we can not compare a full volley of the Striker with the Phoenix, because sometimes not all of the rockets hit the target, well sometimes you do not hit with the phoenix either. What I am saying is not all of the Phoenix rockets hit their target, so if you want to compare real world effectiveness of a weapon or an average DPV (damage per volley), then you would need to look at the average accuracy for each weapon. For me, I am about 70% accurate with the striker, which means on average I do about 1228 worth of damage per volley, while I am about 50% accurate with the Phoenix or around 650 worth of damage per engagement.

While this may seem confusing these values represent a vague effectiveness of a weapon over time. Is it better to be 70% accurate with the Striker or 50% with the Phoenix? I find I would rather be 70% with the Striker, then 50% with the Phoenix because over time I will be dealing out more damage with the Striker, thus I am more effective. The Phoenix may be camera guided, but most users even top user like TheKhopesh above only manage about 50% accuracy with the Phoenix, it's just not that good of a weapon other then in its very narrow niche.

TLDR; The Lancer and soon to be Striker are very versatile rocket launchers, that are effective against air and ground vehicles and Max units, both inside and outside of bases, on the run or as general I do not know what I might need launcher . The phoenix while it is camera guided & unique, that ability just does not provide enough benefit to warrant the lack of versatility in comparison with the Lancer and Striker, giving it a dumb fire mode would help bridge that gap.

NO the OP wants a useful Rocket Launcher, something that might be used other then from the top of a spawn room. Even with a dumbfire mode the Phoenix will have many disadvantages when compared to the decimator or shrike. It will still have the slowest projectile,be the most visible and be able to be shot out of the air.

What are these great disadvantages for Lancer and Striker vs the Decimator? I would gladly carry the Lancer or even the Striker as a general purpose rocket launcher, sure there are times I would be better off with the decimator, but I wouldn't consider myself that disadvantaged if I was caught in the open or in a base with either of those weapons, but I would never carry the Phoenix for general purpose, EVER, and that is the crux of the problem.

The low speed is a good point. I don't feel a strong need for dumbfire. I just want an afterburner and infantry damage restored. Also make them not able to pass through spawn shields.

An afterburner would be a nice, that would make it much easier to hit things, I do think infantry damage is a bit much. But for general purpose, being able to dumbfire it would be huge and I also think since it is still So slow and can be shot down, then it should have no drop, but then explode once it hits its 295m max distance.

A phoenix with dumbfire mode would be as broken as a decimator that could get an AA or AV lock-on mode.

The lancer has the charging mechanic which sets it aside from the Decimator. The current Striker is completely useless and I'll pick my Annihilator any day. Exactly how the new Striker will play is not clear yet since we do not know exactly how it will perform. Based on what we know, it sacrifices alpha damage from the Decimator for the ability to spread it out. So to get the same damage as one Decimator, you need to land all 5 rockets instead of one but you get a chance of landing a couple instead of none if you miss the first one.

So why would you add dumb fire to the Phoenix? If you are in a battle where it is not a suitable weapon, don't use it. If you are in a battle where it is useful, there are a bunch of those, then use it. In some battles, a shotgun will always win, mainly CQC. But you can't argue that the shotgun needs to be able to be transformed into a sniper rifle just because the battle moved to a long distance one. You go and switch load out. If you can't then though luck. I have been caught out many times with the wrong load out and you deal with it.

You need to add a dumbfire to the Phoenix, because it is much more limited in general use then the Lancer and soon to be Striker, both of which will have dumb fire capabilities, which will make them much more useful in a much greater variety of situations.

As I said before the Camera is a novelty and while it does have the Alpha strike of the decimator, its DPS is double that of the decimator in its effective range of 150-295m range and the last I checked it takes more then one rocket to kill vehicles, so while Alpha strike is nice DPS is important as well.

Can you use the Lancer and Striker indoors effectively? Yes
Can you use the Lancer and Striker on the run? Yes
Can you use the Lancer and Striker effectively <100m engagements? Yes

While neither of them hit has hard as the decimator, they have other advantages that make up for this slight damage difference, while the Phoenix has the same alpha strike of the Decimator, but is hindered by an excessive amount of disadvantages, which are not balanced by the camera guided ability of the projectile. ie Slow velocity projectile, Killable projectile, player is frozen and double the DPS of the decimator, no dumb fire.

The Lancer and Striker 3.0 are versatile and more general purpose, while the Phoenix does have a unique camera mode, which allows it to hit targets under modest cover in the 150 - 295m range, other then that it is next to worthless. Adding a Dumbfire mode would allow the Phoenix to be used in in the Sub 100m range, indoors and on the run, while still having all the disadvantages of being slow moving and killable and the added disadvantage of a frozen player while in camera mode during use.

Wait wait wait wait. As far as i remember, lancer does abysmal damage when shot without charging, and striker cannot be used without lock at all. What are you talking about?

You are correct in the sense that sometimes the Phoenix doesnt hit. However, in your post that I replied to, you said that the Phoenix did less damage because you took the 67% and adjusted the damage of the rocket. You cant do that. When the Phoenix Rocket hits, it will do the 1401 damage as I posted because it fires a single rocket. With the Striker however, we have to fire a salvo of 5 rockets. Out of those 5 rockets, we have a chance of missing multiple rockets. Hence the reasoning for only listing the damage of a single rocket.

I don't think you actually read what I wrote.

There would be 0 benefice for getting a dumbfire mode since outside of knife range, it is entirely pointless compare to other option. It has nothing to do with balance. You can already do something close to a dumbfire by exiting the camera anyway.

Don't quote and use my posts as support for yours (you don't have any arguement to begin with) when you can even bother to read it.

I don't think that's really true.

It is more that the Pheonix is going to very situational (without really being that powerful within that situation) comparratively to the other ESRLs.

I think (going through the numbers quickly) that the Pheonix wouldn't be a Decimator, but rather a weaker Decimator (assuming current reload), but I think it would be fine, for example, to have dumbfire result in a longer reload for balance reasons.

Also the AA mode is a very, very interesting idea as an alternative.

The Striker 2.0 is being changed to the Striker 3.0, it's going to be a very different beast with partial Coyote mechanics.

I answered your question, why would you want to dumb fire it and the answer is to remove some disadvantages in order not to have to chose load out based on the situation.

So how about not comparing the imaginary weapons with existing ones? Also, what about lancer? Seriously.

You need to re-read my post I never said the Phoenix would do 67% less damage in an individual shot, but on average when all shots fired are taken into consideration, when you average hits and misses. I explicit explained that the 67% value was an average of all shots fired, not individual damage amounts, you said 3/5 striker rockets hit on average = 67% so I then compared the Phoenix with a 67% accuracy.

You continually want to compare the Striker not landing all shots (real world value) vs the Phoenix landing all its shots (max value), I understand the Striker can sometimes land between 0-5 rockets on the target, but at the same time not all Phoenix rockets are going to hit either, so when it comes to looking at the actual total damage being dealt by both weapons or weapon effectiveness, you need to compare all shots fired and all shots hit, as that average value will express the average damage per volley or how effective you are with each weapon over all time.

The point I was attempting to explain to you is that the Phoenix does not land all shots fired, just like the Striker, some miss and on average the Phoenix has like a 50%-60% accuracy level between all users, therefore when you want to get a rough comparison of the effectiveness of each weapon, you need to take into consideration the accuracy of each weapon and all shots fired.

For Example; I am 71% Accurate with the striker, which means on average I do approx. 1228 damage per volley or I land between 3-4 rockets per shot. I am 53% accurate with the phoenix, which means on average I do approx 742 damage per volley.

So if I wanted to get an idea of how effective I am with each weapon I would look at those numbers from the example and compare them and I would say they pretty much represent my actual in game experience with both weapons, I prefer the striker over the phoenix in pretty much every situation, because on average I do 60% more damage in sum total with the striker over the Phoenix and that jives with my feel of the two weapons.

And it is this reason that I would like to see the Phoenix have a dumb fire mode. The weapon while it is unique with its camera guided rocket, that feature along with all of the other characteristics of the Phoenix just does not make it nearly as effective as other rocket launchers, especially since it has a very narrow set of situations where it can benefit the user. Giving it a dumb fire mode would allow it to be used in more situations, thus this would improve its usefulness.