[Suggestion] "ADADADAD" What it is, and how to get rid of it

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Shiaari, May 6, 2015.

  1. Shiaari

    [TLDR] Force players to make additional compensation with their aim when straffing.

    The History
    First, let's dispense with "ADADADAD" spam and just call it "straffing" because that's what it is: straffing. The first game to implement what we would consider "modern" FPS controls (WASD, forward, backward, strafe left/right, with full time mouse look) was Quake. Incidentally, Quake was also the first FPS to natively make use of multiplayer over IP, allowing for what we enjoy as a good old fashioned deathmatch. (Yeah, you could strafe in Doom and Doom 2 also, but the game wasn't laid out to make use of that feature. It was kind of a gimmick. You could beat the game on the highest difficulty without needing to strafe.)

    The thing is, in Quake, when you weren't rocket jumping (I dare you to try that in PS2) you were straffing. The entire point of the WASD control scheme was to strafe sideways, thus allowing you to keep your reticle on target. Mouse look was always on, which provided the most intuitive way to maneuver around a firefight. It didn't take long for players to mix up their straffing pattern.

    The Problem
    For some reason kids these days are calling ADADADAD spam, when it's really just an old FPS standby that's been around for decades just like bunny hopping: strafe left-right-left-right-left-right-right-right-left-right-left-left-left-crouch-jump, and try to make it random. In the '90s this was considered the real "art" to professional gaming, the ability to make yourself harder to hit while maintaining good aim.

    Unfortunately, when something becomes professional it also becomes fundamental.

    Straffing randomly has since always been the bailiwick of the pro button masher. Various games throughout the years have tried to spin that to make it more difficult. The objective is to make these complicated maneuvers more difficult to perform, and thus further reduce the number of players who can do them. This sounds... socially Darwinistic in a gaming sense, but that's exactly what we are trying to do: add hoops to leap through and make the game harder to play for those who have mastered it.

    No self-respecting gamer would continue to beat a game on the same difficulty level, right? No, we increase the difficulty level, and when we've maxed it out and are still kicking its a**, we know we've finally truly beaten the game.

    It's time to make PlanetSide 2 more difficult to play for those players who have mastered it.

    The Solution
    I propose we introduce a very small tweek in the way the reticle aims when straffing. You can already see your gun shift in your hands when you move, but the reticle just kinda magically sits there. Iron sights already do this, sort of, but the direction of fire itself remains unchanged. That reticle needs to move a little bit, and it needs to move a little bit in the direction you are straffing. Yes, reflex scopes keep the reticle in a fixed position, but the direction of fire needs to move when you strafe. With reflex scopes it would mean the reticle disappears entirely, because it's only visible when you're looking at it in the right direction, and the idea is that your gun is shifting in your hands when you strafe, throwing off your aim (this would incidentally give iron sights an actual use). This intentionally and arbitrarily throws off your aim forcing you compensate beyond the normal "keeping it steady". Think of it as recoil. When you shoot you have to draw your mouse downward to compensate. When you strafe, you should be required to drag your mouse sideways (beyond what we currently do) to compensate.

    That's really about it.
    • Up x 12
  2. Ianneman

    Or just remove 0.75ADS
    • Up x 10
  3. Shiaari

    That would also work, but that also reduces the complexity of the game. I think our objective should be to provide players with something they can work to overcome. Which is to say I think we need to foster skill building.
    • Up x 2
  4. Littleman

    I'll make a correction to what Ianneman said: remove .75x ADS from LMGs. The .75x ADS on rifles and carbines is one of the few things keeping softies competitive with the heavies. MAYBE keep it on the NS-15m, because it's available to everyone and it's not really a DPS machine, but a precision machine... which .75x ADS sabotages.
    • Up x 5
  5. quatin

    Did you know this was actually implemented up until this year? I thought it was a realism feature, but some people called it a bug.

    Red dot sights when strafing were actually "slightly" off center of aim. That's why alot of people used the NV scope, since the crosshairs were actual when straffing and therefore, NV scopes had a longer ADS time. I thought it was a neat balance feature.

  6. Shiaari

    Actually it was like that ever since beta. Reflex reticles would sway. They stopped doing that this year though.

    Yet, I'm talking about something slightly different.

    I'm talking about the weapon's actual direction of fire. If you equip iron sights you can see what I'm talking about. When you move rapidly the gun's muzzle shifts in direction, thus altering the orientation of the iron sights. Yet, the actual direction the gun is facing doesn't change. You shoot straight in front of you.

    I'm suggesting that the weapon's actual direction change subtly when you strafe, such that when you do strafe you don't just see your reticle move (or disappear if it's reflex) but you see your tracers actually shoot off slightly off center, in the direction you are strafing, requiring further compensation from you by moving your mouse slightly faster in the opposite direction.

    Normally you compensate for strafing by doing just that, but only to keep the "pipper" on the target. I'm saying that actual direction of fire compensation should be required, otherwise we hit air.

    Does that make any sense?

    It's hard to illustrate this because we already are required to compensate when strafing. When you strafe the reticle moves off target, and you have to ever so slightly nudge the mouse in the opposite direction to maintain your target. I'm suggesting that further compensation be required.

    Using that video as an example, in my system that "center" of the screen would itself shift to the left when he strafed left, and shift to the right when straffing right.
    • Up x 1
  7. FateJH

    The problem comes when one combines rapid strafing in alternating directions and this game's compensation algorithms. When the game doesn't know exactly how to display your character in the next frame, because it has not yet received word from the server, it continues a player's last known behavior. Once the server and client synchs back up, the latent player will rubberband to where the game now knows he is and doing what the game actually knows he is doing. "ADAD spam" takes advantage of this small time gap and the instantaneous behavior correction to make clients display players with rapid, sometimes broken motion.
    • Up x 4
  8. Shiaari

    And you're absolutely right. My proposal is to alter the way the game determines "center" when strafing. So, a player spamming the A and D keys would literally see his shots bouncing off to the left and to the right each time he moved, forcing him to take corrective action, or actually stand still to shoot.

    We could even take this a step further. Longer barreled weapons (I'm talking to you Heavies with LMGs) would require even greater compensation because they are longer. This--in my opinion--would emphasize the snub nosed weapons like carbines and SMGs as CQC weapons.
    • Up x 1
  9. asmodraxus

    Or just increase weapons CoF bloom even if ADS'ing whilst moving by 25%
    • Up x 1
  10. MonnyMoony

    The easiest fix for this would be to simply apply inertia to infantry.

    Vehicles and Max suits already have it - so it's already built into the game engine. It'd probably be easier to apply it to infantry as well - rather than code a new 'fix'.
    • Up x 5
  11. JudgeNu

    I rarely encounter these types.
    If I do I just chaulk it off and get on getting on.
    I find these players silly tbh.

    You could also strafe in Duke3D.
    Iirc correctly "bunnyhopping" is an exploit.
    Trying not to get hit is not.
    There is a fine line imo and crossing over that line means you DO NOT have skills.
  12. Scr1nRusher

    "reducing complexity of the game".


    The game is primary balanced around 0.5 ADS speed on primaries.
  13. AxiomInsanity87

    UT>Quake though.

    OK yeah some very good points. Now it seems that people think standing still and quickly getting a headshot is skill. We did/do that while adadadading with some w & s with jumps and crouches.

    And the doom strafing, if it can even be called that lol.
    • Up x 1
  14. Shiaari

    It would reduce the complexity of the game by removing a feature. When you remove a component of a system you simplify it. In systems analysis this is generally the objective, to remove unnecessary redundancies and steps, with simplicity in mind.

    However, open world game design flourishes--as does life itself--on complexity, not simplicity. The manner in which these complexities interact may be simplified, but the presence of these complexities are what provide the game with replayability.

    We seek to introduce the player to new possibilities and new risks. Simply removing .75 ADS from the game would be a step backward from that objective.
    • Up x 3
  15. Scr1nRusher


    Also 0.75 ADS being removed wouldn't remove complexity. Take a look at the rest of the game that doesn't have 0.75 ADS weapons, its plenty complex. Also the game is primary balanced around 0.5 ADS speed.
    • Up x 2
  16. AxiomInsanity87

    I'll elaborate for Lols on the doom strafing for those who have not had the privilege of playing that classic masterpiece.

    Strafing to the left

    Turn left

    Go forward

    Turn left

    Go forward

    Strafing to the right

    Same as above but turn right lol.

    I know the updated versions actually have strafing and 2 player coop!. Or at least on doom 3's bonus versions.

    The imps snarling was proper freaky.

    Nostalgia over.
    • Up x 1
  17. HadesR

    How about if that component is the cause or source of the system being simplified ?

    If you remove a component that makes something easier such as aiming while strafing ( 0.75 ADS ) are you not making it harder thus more complex ?
    • Up x 1
  18. Shiaari

    You strike me as the kind of person who has one pair of shoes, one pair of socks, one jacket, one shirt, one pair of underwear, one pair of pants, living in a one room apartment. You do understand how important it is to have multiple varieties of these things? Correct? Then how come you take this approach to gaming?

    The entire point of this is to avoid the nuclear option of removing .75 ADS from the game, just like we'd very much rather avoid removing tanks from the game in the name of balance.

    "We" are those who play this game, including yourself. The miracle of reason is that it benefits even those who reject it.
    • Up x 2
  19. Scr1nRusher

    Nothing more needs to be said.
  20. Shiaari

    Very much so. Chess is one such game.

    Yet, which is more complex and more difficult? Everyone forced into .50 ADS? Or having access to .75 ADS and then requiring a new skill to use it?
    • Up x 1