ADADAD nerf.

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by ST4LK3R, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. ST4LK3R

    I hope it's a nerf to adadad tactic. Please change it a bit so that crosshair will go wobble wobble only when you spam A and D key.
    • Up x 1
  2. Brandmon

    It is actually not a nerf for ADAD tactics as it stands. If you maintain fire, then the crosshair auto-centres and the wobbling stops being an issue. Indeed the wobble is simply there as an illusion to put you off as you can still use the centre of the screen as a point of reference of where the shots will go.

    I am presuming this is a bug. Or at least I hope it is. It is an unnecessary change, if not counter productive.
    • Up x 1
  3. Scientiarum

    When crouched ADS it basically blocks the entire screen with your scope if at higher magnifications. This is most def a bug.
    • Up x 1
  4. RIctavius

    No. its a bug.
    • Up x 1
  5. LibertyRevolution

    What are we talking about, got a video?
  6. ttttz

    It's just a bug, SOE are trying to fix cross-hairs blooming when walking tripping over small objects, not add to it.

    However, on the subject of Hipfire/ADAD vs Scope:

    • A circle and a dot or lines are painted on the screen to tell where the center of the screen is, for players who can't aim.
      • This includes shotguns, and the TR MCG in hipfire. It's interesting to note SOE's intended audience for the TR MCG.
    • Scopes magnify the image and lower the effective sensitivity. At close range this makes it much easier for players who can't aim. At long range this is necessary to be able to shoot.
    • Not originally intended to be used inside a room, but players exploit this. Supported by scope addons and reduction in horizontal recoil with forward grip.
      • Movement penalties and transition time is deliberately introduced by SOE to compensate for Scopes being used at short ranges. Some ADAD is intentionally supported by having 0.75 ADS movement penalty weapons.
    • Center of the screen is not prominently marked - just a rough suggestion by almost invisible cross-hairs.
    • Hitting targets require being able to Aim.
    • No movement penalty or transition time
    • Intended to be used inside a room, supported by laser sight addons. Hipfire at range is not intended - CoFs ensure that and they were made larger recently to fine-tune and balance things out.
    • ADAD and jumping works both ways and cancel each other. The player who can aim will still win.
    Most of the confusion comes with players not understanding Hipfire/ADAD works both ways and cancels each other - and the person with the better aim will prevail. Players who have a lot of kills in ADS will have acquired better aim over time, and be able to prevail using Hipfire over new players with few kills.
  7. Stromberg

    did you just say, scope is for players who can't aim and hipfire is for players who can aim?
    • Up x 3
  8. MasonSTL

    No he is saying people that literally draw a dot on their screen or an overlay of crosshairs are bad at aiming.
  9. Pirbi

    As I understand it, ADAD is when a player appears to be jumping side to side very quickly in order to screw up their hitbox. It's not a normally smacking of the keyboard, but seems more automated and sometimes a crouch is thrown in. It's not as bad as it used to be. I don't know if SOE did something to affect it. They are few enough now that I can tell who I'm fighting when I see it. If on the ball, you can take them down by favoring the initial spot and middle but not trying to follow their complete motion. Fight their hitbox, not their character. I feel sad for players that need a crutch like that.
    • Up x 2
  10. ttttz


    I'm also saying hitting a pea at 22 yards is much harder than hitting a pea magnified to the size of an elephant at 22 yards with the mouse sensitivity lowered so you could move the cross-hairs slowly over the magnified image. This is what happens when scopes are used at close range.

    To clarify:
    Some experienced players are confused over this. If a seasoned player with good aim goes up against a newer player, is it better to do it in hipfire/ADAD or with both players using scopes?

    If they both use scopes, the newer player has the center of the screen marked and the image magnified/mouse sensitivity lowered. This effectivelyreduces the difference in skill level and is worse for the experienced player.

    Or to put it another way, using scopes reduces the ability to express skill. SOE has put a transition time to try to introduce some element of maneuvering skill, but a lot of the aiming/manouvering skill is removed.

    Hit detection is client side - meaning if you fire and the bullet hits a player model on your screen it counts as a hit.

    There used to be some bug that allowed players to move large distances very rapidly from side to side on the opponents screen, as well as hitboxes not lining up due to a bug (IIRC). They were fixed, as I recall.
  11. MasonSTL

    I completely disagree, this would only be true if CoF wasn't involved. ADS tightens the cone of fire for longer range shots. Hipfire would only show better skill if it had the same CoF as ADS.

    On top of that there is the size of the players screen that has to factor in. Players with smaller screens would have to squint to see some targets that a player with a bigger screen, so it is in their best interest to use a scope.

    You can not tell skill level, in this game, by weather or not someone uses ADS and, to a lesser extent, scopes.
  12. Pirbi

    While hit detection is client side, it seems the hitbox can get separated from the representation. Or at least literally keeping aim on the 'warper' doesn't seem to be as effective as ignoring half of it in my experience.
  13. Stromberg

    you're missing some important things imo, movement and recoil:
    this is true only for stationary targets. assuming you use a 12x scope, yes, your target is 12 times bigger but he also moves 12 times faster! this is why ppl don't use 12x scopes in CQC. your target might be as big as your screen, but once he moves a little, he is gone and no human would be able to follow such a quick and sudden movement. add to this that your recoil is also 12 times bigger, you won't be able to compensate for this. this is why ppl avoid scopes on automatic weapons.

    and again, the scope is not some dark magic that will make you hit everything. while the target is bigger, so is the recoil and the targets movement speed. it's easier to do some alpha damage to an unaware target with a scope, but once he starts dodging the scope won't help much.
  14. ttttz

    I used that as an example to show that having magnification and mouse sensitivity reductions make things easier. It's another factor to be considered. Really high ADS zoom does result in lack of situational awareness.

    Inside of a room, at very close ranges where a good chunk of game play takes place, CoF matters less. It's long range accuracy SOE tries to balance when tweaking CoFs. CQC weapons have decent CoFs in hipfire anyway, it's the long range sniper carbines used without laser sights that have really wide CoFs in hipfire.

    Range is a factor, and there's obviously a range beyond which headshot percentages make ADS a better option.

    You're right that screen size and viewing distance matters - also the eye scans with the high resolution center of the retina so it can 'zoom in' if the screen is far away.

    Having a mouse with DPI suitable for common movement sizes with the grip used also matters. On the fly DPI switching might help a little in certain situations too. It's not really a level playing field in that regard.

    All things have to be equal to decide that hipfire is the better option, yes.

    I think the warping/teleporting is a separate temporary issue related to amount of players in an area/server load. It was likely introduced because of ongoing optimisations, and really quick ADAD shouldn't trigger it(?).
  15. IamnotAmazing

    it's a bug
  16. Scientiarum

    pretty sure that is what I just said... Yes it is a bug for sure.
  17. MykeMichail

    This is a pretty fail argument for scopes reducing skill.

    Scope or no scope you still need to account for bullet travel time vs a moving target.

    Sensitivity arguments also fail as you can set your 'scoped' sensitivity to to be just as high as your hip sensitivity if you chose to do so.

    Furthermore, reducing scoped sensitivity for ease of aiming makes you need a whole lot more wrist movement to compensate for recoil.

    Personally, my scoped sensitivity is nearly as high as my aimed sensitivity, which is about 1/2 my hip sensitivity. The only reason I don't have my scoped as high as my aimed is because when sniping at extreme ranges, my scoped sensitivity is far too high to be practical.

    The level of optical magnification a person uses is generally an indicator of their intended engagement range, not a lack of skill.

    Generally when I'm using a 3.4 scope, the target on my screen is much, much smaller than anything I would ever try to hit whilst ADSing, perhaps 1/4 the size.

    I only use an 3.4x scope in closer ranges because that's what I'm carrying at the time, and if anything, a high magnification scope in close range is a massive disadvantage, as reduced field of view makes it much easier to lose track of your target.[/quote]
  18. ttttz

    The particular scenario in question is inside of rooms where Hipfire/ADAD is a viable option competing with ADS, but where some players still use ADS - this range is where the bulk of important infantry combat takes place.

    At longer ranges it's irrelevant, and as I mentioned, there is a range beyond which landing headshots makes ADS the best option.

    As for the validity of the arguments, having the center of the screen marked with a circle and a dot/line is a big part in reduction of skill.
    • SOE have deliberately made crosshairs faint and almost invisible in hipfire, and added a ADS transition time and movement penalty to compensate for the advantage
    • Shotguns whose target audience is players who can't aim and maneuver to be competitive as yet, have both a circle and a dot marked very visibly. Maxes, which use a TTK advantage over skill in an ability and which are very compatible with the shotgun target audience, have the center of the screen prominently marked.
    • The company mentioned in this recent thread runs a business making LED dots for FPS
    • The teamspeak overlay also mentioned in that thread exists to get around developer's intentions
    • Players looking to exploit draw dots on screens as MasonSTL mentioned
    The sensitivity I'm talking about is an invisible automatic baseline reduction, so even if ADS and hipfire sensitivities are the same it will come into play. Otherwise, when using a 12x scope with the same ADS sensitivity as Hipfire, reasonable movement of the mouse will turn the character entirely resulting in looking in a different direction altogether.

    At close ranges inside rooms where hipfire is an option, where we are talking about the sensitivity can be used to get help getting headshots, especially with high damage semi-auto weapons (crossbow, semi-auto snipers/BRs).

    It's true the 1x scopes are popular for maintaining situational awareness and, the recoil when zoomed is an issue mostly depending on the size of the random recoil component. However, the 2x reflex scope is also popular as players appreciate the benefits of image magnification.
  19. Sixty

    This, my son is right way where Planetside 2 should go. Now its a just first part of balancing these terrible mechanics what destroyed FPS genre entirely. Get rid of stupid Strafing,ADAD (ala hula hula dancers) or bunny hoppers. These craps are only good in arena FPS game with hit scan weapons. (UT,Quake maybe COD but i dont know if it have hit scan weapons...looks like yes.) I know these mechanics are trully "pro" i accept this, but we must evolve from this to something bigger..Yes they were good mechanics, but we must turn list if we want FPS genre somewhere to move. Games like Planetside should be more "realistic". (Something from ARMA something from Red orchestra. For me i wish more Red Orchestra mechanics than Arma (lens scopes are amazing!)

    Like everbody say..In planetside 2 you are just solider..Nothing more nothing less..

    But nevermind they remove it..Finaly something good and new and they destroy it..
  20. maxkeiser

    Good to see this removed. Presumably it was a bug. One of the good things about PS2 is the relative freedom in the movement - the ability to make movement pay and to win engagements based purely on movement.

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