[Actually serious] Maxes should be deleted from Planetside 2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Mustarde, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. Iridar51

    You care if you don't want to make an assumption that wastes everybody's time. My argument is a counterargument to the argument that MAXes take more explosive damage, when they clearly take much less.
  2. Gammit

    • Up x 4
  3. Maljas23

    Hey look!

    There are now several new counters to the unit you believe to be OP most. This is a perfect opportunity for you to take out your hatred on these overpowered skillsuits, utilizing these newly released tools in-game. No need to continue this farce on Forumside 2.
  4. JustBoo

    Quoted for Truth. Oh so true.

    Are people enjoying the new pop-hit sound sensations on the hipster radio? Ryan Secrist count down follows.

    1.) Whining In The Wind
    2.) Why Am I Not a God Any Longer
    3.) I Want It My Way Or No Way
    4.) Scrubs Be Scrubin' (And I'm Too Good To Deal With It)
    5.) Diversity Is Not For Me, So Said He

    They all have the same dub-step beat and are kind of the same, but some people just LOVE to hear the same thing over and over with little variation. Enjoy.

    • Up x 1
  5. Timothy Pearson

    I have some serious hate for maxes, It's an easy way out for shtty players. Devs, listen to this man.
  6. miraculousmouse

    Aka players who are better than you at the game and make you redeploy.
  7. miraculousmouse

    Agreed dude. MAX supporters are all seriously just obese triple chinned boot camp/basic training dropouts who try to get their tactikool milsim experience on in this game. it is a ******* FPS game with lots of people, that isn't an excuse for OP MAX spam ********.
  8. JohnGalt36

    How did this troll-thread make it to 12 pages?
    • Up x 4
  9. JustBoo

    And yet... here YOU are.
  10. Ronin Oni

    Infantryside tears are the most delicious tears.

    When you have to resort to baseless insults you know you've got nothing of value to say.
    • Up x 5
  11. FateJH

    Forumside voodoo involving nanomachines.
  12. Mustarde

    I'm wondering the same thing

    I've tried to keep the discussion on topic. I do think the Archer is nice, but it requires a lot of people to be using them to keep maxes at bay. Once the hype dies down, I'm pretty sure it'll be back to the usual spam with only a handful of people using it.

    Get rid of revivability and maybe the Archer will have a more meaningful impact on the max ecosystem.
  13. FateJH

    We already have a precedent that the ecosystem stopped existing when revivability was set to zero.
    • Up x 2
  14. Kcalehc

    MAXs aren't that hard to kill. Any automatic weapon takes less than 3 magazines to kill one, at 15m or so. Easier if you've a rocket launcher, or use grenades.

    A new player in a MAX won't magically become god-like as it appears to have been suggested; they certainly won't beat more experienced players (at least not without taking substantial damage anyway).
    • Up x 2
  15. Iridar51

    • Up x 2
  16. miraculousmouse

    Nah, the only delicious tears are from the ****ters who need to pull a MAX to get a modest 2 KD. Let's face it, this is a game forum and I am a very decent player of this game, that is all I need.
  17. miraculousmouse

    Yes, 3 mags from a gun is very very easy, and totally not an inefficient waste that can leave you vulnerable to the dozens of other players. Rocket launchers require a measurable amount of effort to kill MAXes, as opposed to the point and click adventure that the MAX partakes in when he wastes you. Same with grenades. Let's face it, for how easy it is to use a MAX, its counters require a lot of precision, timing, and luck.
  18. Devrailis

    I haven't bothered posting in these balance discussions in a while, since I generally find them fairly pointless but after reading this thread I need to chime in here.

    First of all, I have 25k+ kills between my two Hacksaws, so I know what I am talking about with regards to the impact on infantry that MAXes have. I have had great love for my big, giant, stompy, rage-machine so don't go pointing fingers at me for wanting to "destroy Planetside 2", this is Forumside so I won't be insulted, but I won't think much of you either.

    Second of all:

    Let's show the OP some respect. He's a long time player who worked hard to get to where he is today. His skill is 100% earned and with the time and effort he has spent in the game and with the community, you can be assured, he only wants what is best for this game. Listen to what he has to say if you want to be a better player and check out his videos. While many players are satisfied polishing their e-wood with worthless cut montages, Mustarde goes that extra mile to explain his thought process, decisions and the pros and cons of his loadouts. He does it to help YOU become a better player. He doesn't have to do it, but he does.

    He is also far far more humble than many players who are far far less skilled than he is.

    You don't have to agree with everything he says, I definitely do not, but don't go throwing rocks at his personal character.

    With that said, here's my take:

    MAXes are broken because the game is broken.

    There are good players who are more than capable of handling MAXes, even solo. However, they are a small minority. The vast majority of the playerbase does not know how to deal with MAXes even with the tools available, C4, rockets, mines, and good ole gunfire.

    The segment of the playerbase that MAXes hurt the most are the new players. If I Hacksaw a room full of BR 100 players, I don't care, I feel great and they know what to expect. They should know how to handle me, many do.

    When I farm a room full of BR 8, 10, 20, 30 players, it also feels great. I'm farming, I'm making the bonus cheques, it's great for me.

    It also sucks for those BR 8, 10, 20, 30 players who die multiple times within the span of minutes because they don't know about and don't have the tools to deal with my MAX beyond hammering me down via sheer attrition.

    This is bad for the game.

    This is the most harmful aspect of the MAX hands down, beyond their ability to shoot at vehicles beyond render range or at aircraft from within a spawn room, those are minor issues in comparison. The most harmful aspect of the MAX is that it shuts down good gameplay for NEW players who are not familiar with MAXes. The KD that you and I earn at the expense of those players doesn't mean a whole lot when the new players we kill log off in frustration and never log back on.

    Thanks Recursion Stat Tracker, you confirmed a long standing suspicion of mine.

    Those players are the only real content this game has and every player we lose hurts the game. Don't believe me? Then don't complain as the server pop tanks and people start talking about yet another round of server merges.

    MAXes aren't the only reason that new players and old leave the game, but you are only fooling yourself if you can't see that they contribute to Planetside 2's poor player retention.

    As for why MAXes exist in a broken form, I believe it's actually quite simple.

    Planetside 2 does not have sufficient depth to support MAXes.

    Planetside 2 is a shooter, at the end of the day, almost a pure shooter, regardless of the tanks and aircraft and the alerts. You could remove them all, the tanks, the aircraft, the alerts and yes, the MAXes and you'll still have the infantry there to shoot mans and cap points without changing the cap system. MAXes are here, along with the vehicles, and the control points because Planetside 2 WANTS to be more than just a shooter, more than Dirty Bomb, Counter Strike, Blacklight, and yes, more than CoD and more than Battlefield.

    But it isn't. It doesn't have the strategic depth it needs to be more than a giant death match arena where people measure their SPM/KD/inchesbelow.

    And since this game relies so heavily on pure shooter mechanics, there is not a whole lot for the MAX to do beyond shoot mans and make life miserable for the most inexperienced segment of the playerbase.

    This is the exact same problem this game has with vehicles, especially AI vehicles. There's simply nothing there to support MAXes beyond their role of bigger, stompier mans with more gunz.

    Here are a few things I would like to see to address MAXes, and this list is not comprehensive.

    1) Limit MAX spawns to base ownership.

    Like the MBT, which relies on Tech Plant ownership to pull, make MAXes dependent on base ownership. Create a large facility called the Exo Suit Plant. This would result in a few things.

    - Bases would matter
    • Losing the ability to pull MAXes would be crippling at the wrong time. We want this. Bases won't matter until players are punished for losing them. If you can't pull MAXes because you lost your exo suit plant, too bad, maybe you should have been defending those control points instead of playing bushwookie with your bolt action.
    - You have a more organic method of controlling MAX availability
    • Want a continent that does not have MAX spam? Easy. Don't have Exo Suit Plants. Problem solved.
    • Wait, what's that? You can still pull from warp gate? We can solve that too.
    2) Give MAXes a separate terminal and restrict MAX access to these terminals.

    Again, like the MBT, MAX spawn should be restricted to specific terminals. Regular infantry terminals will allow you to spawn and pull loadouts for the basic infantry classes. Remove the ability to pull MAXes from sunderers. Only place MAX terminals in specific, large facilities. Now, you can be reasonably sure when and where you will see a MAX. If you see a MAX outside of those areas, then you can bet someone went through the effort to get that MAX there and if they put in that effort, they deserve to be there.

    You can also remove MAX terminals entirely from continents, battle islands, what-have-you, for those special places you want to see free of MAX combat entirely.

    3) Revamp the resource system and give the MAX a specialized role within the resource system.

    Refer to this thread here: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...pair-ammuniton-dispenser.225708/#post-3180353

    Judging by the postive responses to my post within the thread (which got a criminally small amount of attention compared to the usual whine/nerf/buff threads around it), a lot of players are keen on the idea of giving MAXes more support abilities.

    Again, MAXes are broken because the game is broken. It's all about shooting. Give players more things to do besides shoot that have a direct strategic impact. Give MAXes some essential resource harvesting aspect that is difficult to reproduce elsewhere, and you will have people pull MAXes to help their empire without their #1 goal being to farm little mans.

    4) Give MAXes support abilities that are needed to complete objectives.

    Seriously, I have little interest in more gunz. When's the last time we got a decent set of empire specific abilities for any class? When was the last update to base capture mechanics to make them more interesting?

    Give MAXes more support suit abilities and give these abilities a meaningful role in objective play. Let's be creative, the designers and the playerbase are not drooling idiots. Create objectives that can only be damaged via rockets and only be repaired via MAX repair tools, create "terminals" that only MAXes can interact with, create painfield zones that only MAXes can pass through without taking constant damage with objectives that only MAXes can cap.

    Have objectives that do not flip bases but result in a change in the environment. We have all of ONE bridge switch on Amerish, why not more? Tie turret access, gate shields, entire solid walls to terminals, control points, destructible objectives and make their interactions MAX specific.

    Do these things and people will have a real strategic need to pull MAXes.

    Now, you can weaken MAX guns all you want and it wouldn't matter, because you will NEED to pull them anyway.

    Right now, there's no need to pull a MAX beyond shooting things, so if you take away their ability to shoot things, you take away the need to pull a MAX and you take away the reason to have MAXes at all.

    This is both a problem with MAXes and a problem with the shallowness of the game's strategic mechanics.

    Rest assured, MAXes are not being removed from the game. They've been in the game from the beginning and are not going to disappear. You just got a specialized anti-MAX rifle that's only good at killing MAXes, a change to AT mines to trigger on MAXes, the designers just made it very clear that MAXes are here to stay and that you just need more tools to deal with them.

    But more tools are just a bandaid solution to a problem that does not lie with MAXes themselves. If you really want to fix MAXes, you need to fix the game.

    You need a better game with deeper mechanics.
    • Up x 5
  19. Iridar51

    Great post, you're probably the first MAX lover I don't want to immediately strangle with my bear bare hands.
  20. MetalCotton

    It's weird how Iridar is fighting in this thread more than OP for removal of MAX suits.