[Actually serious] Maxes should be deleted from Planetside 2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Mustarde, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. K2k4

    I think that the only reason the thread isn't closed is because there is an opportunity to disallow Max pulling on the new game modes coming out so the devs are listening.

    My 2 bits, maxes and vehicles are all OP and for farming. I would like to see a small map match mode where only infantry can duke it out. People complain that this is similar to other shooters, but isn't it possible that similarity can be good for the game? They are trying to bring in more players.
  2. Takoita

    On one hand, I'm kind of bumache about enemy MAXes. When the other team pumps out 40+ of those things a minute before the cap is complete and oblitirates their way to the point(s), I am sure I could fit in one of those rage comics easily. Running afoul of MAX shotguns, Ravens and VS plasma machineguns when the only reliable option on the team I usually play in are Pounders certainly adds to it.

    However, I also happen to distinctly remember OP lobbying for bringing some nerfbats to the so-called 'rocket primary' weaponry. Which is, by the way, the go-to option for smoking out MAXes out of indoor environment for a number of reasons (availability, short required exposure time, high burst damage, OHK against fellow infantry allowing for a chance of survival in case you get caught with your pants down). So I hope you can understand, Mustarde, when I say that I have doubts about the actual reasons behind you posting this thread.

    As for purchasing superiority for nanites, I have to ask how that is any different from everything else in this game. Why MAXes, but not tanks, aircraft, mines, grenades, medkits, etc, etc? Your argument about MAX weaponry being blatantly superior against every target falls apart the moment you mention bursters, which counter exactly diggity squat.
    • Up x 2
  3. entrailsgalore

    MAX suits are damaging to who's Planetside 2 experience, yours? It surely isn't damaging to mine. I figured in the year that Planetside 2 takes place, the human race has developed suits used for "super soldiers", AKA MAXes. I mean...we are already developing the beginnings of this technology IRL, and the military is already testing it out. Why would it not be a fully functional device in a futuristic shooter? Tons of fun.
    • Up x 2
  4. Ballto21

    nevermind, i dun goofed
  5. FateJH

    After some consideration, and sleep, I have to agree now with the premise to double rate of fire as opposed to doubling the raw damage as a demonstration for dual-armed-ness. The thought that I don't have the first clue how MAX cone of fire works when firing both weapons simultaneously is one point of that opinion change. Since a MAX can't refine its aim - ADS - it's not impossible that one of two 143 projectiles can miss during a cycle, so the damage will not always be inflated to 286. (If it works that way.)

    Damage per magazine isn't something that I often factor into discussions because people eye them as scapegoats when what they are actually talking about isn't actually related to the whole of the magazine at all. It's often a covetous argument, that is, and not a substantiative argument. This is one of those cases in my opinion. Regardless of other things, however, I will agree with you that MAXes feel like they have too short of a short reload and too short of a long reload for the magazine sizes that they heft, excepting NC MAXes.
    • Up x 1
  6. Mustarde

    No c4, because I use flak 5 and charge - one brick and I'm outta there! Rarely should you ever die to C4.

    Rockets on the other hand... you die to them sometimes, but as a personal rule, if I get to about 60% health, I turtle up until I find an engineer to rep me. Never peek corners or get aggressive unless you are full. The one scene in the video where I'm fighting TR at East River I was going full YOLO because we were losing the base to 3 platoons of TR so I just ran around and mopped up 18 dudes while unsupported until I died.

    That's a fair point - however I repeatedly made the distinct argument that rockets SHOULD be used against maxes, and my problem was how good they were at killing infantry. Flinging OHK rockets into doorways that would splash and kill 2-4 dudes at a time, regardless of flak armor - that was my problem. And for the most part that was addressed by reducing splash while preserving direct damage. Maxes still take 2 rockets. Just not as good at farming infantry... so while you bring up the rocket primary issue, I don't think max balance is a cause-effect because we still have just as many HA's as before (if not more) and rockets remain just as effective against maxes as ever.

    Essentially I wanted rockets to get similar treatment that AV nades got - much less power against infantry but better against max/vehicles. And right now both are in a better spot.
    • Up x 2
  7. Liberty

    The only thing I'd add with mag size is where on something like an NC SAW Heavy, they just don't have the EHP to make any kind of use of that much damage per mag, where MAXes and their large health pools can get actually get real use out of their damage per magazine. This is especially true when you have a pocket engineer.
  8. Ronin Oni

    So because some people can play skillsuits coservatively (and BORINGLY) as hell to pad their useless KD they're a problem????

    If they're cowering in a corner because they lost 40% health (not much more than an inf's shield+health ) then they're effectively out of comnbat for probably longer than a killed inf who'd just run back to the front line while coward POS skillsuit sits useless for 5 min waiting on some idiot engineer to notice him.

    Ok, I agree that it was good to move rockets away from being anti-personell and more AV, you're blatantly and GROSSLY exagerating the facts to unacceptable amounts. As someone who runs Flak armor 4 (not even maxed!) on several kits I can GUARANTEE YOU that you did NOT die to random rocket splash... EVER. It was literally impossible. Even at max splash damage distance. It took direct dmg + splash dmg to kill flak armor wearers.

    And you seem to like to exagerate anything and everything that supports your idiotic nerf everything other than infantry crusade.

    Do MAXes need some tweaking? Sure, lets start with killing Hossin boon first because that thing is broken as hell. I'd also like to see what happens when we make them unrevivable OR we remove the ability to pull them anywhere but hardspawns. (The latter being a huge buff to defenses really, requiring attackers to Gal drop or Sundy transport MAXes to fights)

    But removing them is BEYOND inane as a request. Not only is your idea bad for the game but it's LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for DGC to handle the refunds for literally tens if not hundreds of thousands fo dollars in MAX cosmetic and weapon sales.
    • Up x 1
  9. Liberty

    That is actually exactly the problem, you hit the nail on the head. MAXes are meant to be a heavy breaching unit to break stalemates, they have great cqc firepower, the ability to close gaps faster than any infantry and 10 times the effective hit points against small arms. However, because of the resource system you can pretty much sit in one indefinitely and end up with a straight upgrade to normal infantry that in the hands of semi competent players actually ends up more cost effective in the long run. (As I've mentioned before, going from a tank mine / sticky engie to a grenade bando / medkit heavy will drain you of 400 resources. For 50 more, you can pull a MAX suit. The second you use one med kit or grenade and resupply, you are already at equal costs)

    There is nothing in the game that encourages MAXes to fill their intended role and you get rewarded more (in certs) for using one to farm infantry even if it means having to pull back every now and again to get an engie to repair you or for nano repair to kick in.

    I'm pretty sure everyone knows that they will never get removed, despite the notion that it might be better for future player retention and the health of the game in the long run. To be fair though, DBG could make pulling a MAX cost whatever they call station cash.

    Tell me that would not be the most satisfying thing ever, killing a MAX that had a 5 SC cost attached to it. I'd be all for that pay 2 win model for the sheer satisfaction of it.
    • Up x 1
  10. david06

    Yeah max suits are among the best sellers so there's no way that they're going to remove them from the game with the PS4 launch coming. Another game mode that doesn't have "force multipliers" everywhere could actually pull in players though without killing DBG's existing business model.
  11. Donaldson Jones

    Pretty Much this...
    • Up x 1
  12. Imp C Bravo

    I have no problem killing maxes with pretty much every class (except medic). I kinda think some of you guys are just blowing it out of proportion in your head...
    • Up x 3
  13. AxiomInsanity87

    Seriously actual definitely.
  14. orangejedi829

    Exactly. Please tell me where the OP sets up a straw man?
  15. RykerStruvian

    OK, without me ******** nails and looking like a giant dick, I'm going to put it flatly as to what is the problem in PS2. The problem with PS2, as far as MAXs are concerned, is that they are indeed OP farming machines. But that isn't really the source of the problem. The problem is the fact that MAXs need more tactical/strategic value in order to have any other of utility/purpose. It is more of a symptom of a bad game/design problem as opposed to a root issue.

    The inclusion of AMRs/mines setting off on MAXs is really nice and everything, but its like trying to treat a brain tumor with aspirin. Yeah, your headaches may go away but you still have a tumor. MAXs do have a place in Planetside 2, but that place needs to be more fleshed out with more things to do than just kill/take points. With Planetside 1, MAXs weren't not terribly OP but still very versatile for different small tasks, the biggest issue was that they needed to be accompanied with someone who had a repair tool as well as someone with a REK, as MAXs couldn't get past doors which were locked.

    I think thats a major issue with PS2. The fact that something simple like doors aren't actually in the game (and locked) basically gives the MAX free reign as to where it please to be. If there were doors with locks, and the MAX couldn't get past said doors since it wouldn't be able to hack, immediately you've greatly limited the versatility of the MAX class without having to change any of the stats.

    Really. The MAX isn't a problem. The problem is the game itself. If you wanted to justify a MAX's existence, it needs to have more teamplay oriented roles/benefits rather than being a straight up offensive class. In some ways, MAXs do have it...the burster MAX is really the best example, imo, of how the MAX should be in the game.
    • Up x 2
  16. Mustarde

    I appreciate the sentiment, but you just spent 3 paragraphs explaining why the max isn't a problem, but it is a problem.

    It's a problem.

    If you want to keep it in the game, it needs to be completely redesigned from the ground up (in order to be a balanced element of the game).

    Most likely, we will see the devs stop after the tank mine and AMR changes go in and that will be that - so don't worry about this thread, the OP farming machines will live on for a long time until this game dies. May as well pull them as often as you can.
    • Up x 1
  17. RykerStruvian

    The MAXs aren't the problem though. The problem is the game. You're arguing "MAXs are a problem, BECAUSE the game needs to be redesigned". MAXs can stay in the game, the developers just need to redesign their roles. But for as long as the game is going to be BF/CoD with a Planetside skinjob, then nothing will change.

    Also, I know nothing will probably happen outside of making some kind of counter to a MAX. You're not the only person whois been playing this game since the beta. I'm just sitting and waiting to see what 'Planetside 2.0' is all about in September. If nothing changes, I'm going to pack up my **** and go away for good.
  18. AxiomInsanity87

    Extra points for eyeball and hair follicle shots.

    It will be so leet that I might crap myself.
    • Up x 1
  19. Imp C Bravo

    Well, you COLD just increase the rarity of a MAX. Make em more expensive, and then no one would complain.
  20. Maljas23

    Common place here on Forumside.

    Sadly this isn't true. They will not be satisfied until their "solution" is fully realized.

    So you see anti-MAX folks, if this game was still trying to going the way of E-Sports, I might have agreed with your claims, but its not. That was abandoned a long time ago. If you want E-Sports, go play yourselves some good old fashion CS:GO. You'll find it there for sure.

    They are not going to remove a class that has been part of the game since PS1. Cry and whine as you like, but I'm sure even you guys know how this works.