[Actually serious] Maxes should be deleted from Planetside 2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Mustarde, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. Mustarde

    For 2 1/2 years I've debated and pondered ways to make the MAX unit, a hybrid infantry/vehicle with dual arm weapons and high survivability, a balanced part of the Planetside experience. From reducing offensive capability to reducing HP, nerfing mobility or attacking resource costs, most solutions either don't go far enough, or they turn the MAX into a useless scrap of nanites.

    What isn't debatable is just how damaging the MAX unit is to the Planetside experience. Most of you don't need much explaining to highlight this fact, but some of you can't understand how 2000hp 80% resist dual wielding shotguns is bad for this game. Consider the combined arms aspect of PS2 - almost every type of vehicle or infantry is effectively countered by a MAX, whether its bursters, ravens/comets/pounders or the many AI guns. There is no aspect of Planetside that doesn't have to deal with the MAX, and no aspect of this game is the MAX in a position of being the inferior option.

    If the MAX unit alone is imbalanced, then consider what this game has devolved into as veterans min/max and have enough certs and experience to use them to their full potential. Nothing makes infantry gameplay as frustrating as running into a max unit around every corner. It ruins fights both big and small, and often the only effective counter is to pull one yourself - something I've done many many times to great effect.

    Lately I, like other Planetside players, have been dabbling a bit with Dirty Bomb - a F2P FPS that, while it lacks the scale of PS2, has a similarly high TTK, variety of infantry units and is strongly objective based. And let me tell you, it is so much fun to play against other infantry without dealing with MAX units. So much so, that it makes going back to Planetside even more frustrating. Such a gaping hole in balance, and poor game design.

    Why delete the MAX instead of make it "balanced"? Because ultimately, no matter how you change the stats, MAX units represent purchasing superiority for nanites. Their ability to change domains, from fighting in areas that only infantry can reach, to ducking in and out of spawn rooms while shooting bursters, the MAX unit never has to compete against air, vehicles or infantry in a fair manner. They are most broken against infantry, but even in the vehicle realm, they avoid the typical counters that can be employed against other vehicles, leaving most tanks powerless against a well placed MAX.

    Imagine a Planetside 2 without MAX units. Imagine big 96+ fights. Imagine those 12-24 small fights against other outfits. Imagine server smash. Ask yourself if this would be a better game. If so, join me in encouraging the devs to consider this more radical solution. Refund all the certs or DC invested by players. Create a lore-based explanation such as "the production factory for max units was destroyed in the war".

    I know that a lot of development has gone into the MAX, including the recent audio changes. But in this case, the best thing the devs could do for Planetside is to simply put an end to this experiment. PS2 is still a unique and fun game, even without hybrid infantry/vehicles units.

    Thanks for reading another wall of text from me.

    PS - The coming tank mine changes and the AMR are just bandaids. It is a reflection of the fear of the dev team to do what is truly needed and delete maxes. Any smart player can avoid tank mines, and the AMR is so limited in use indoors that I don't see them getting rid of the chain pulling that takes place in this game.

    TLDR - Delete MAXes. Just delete them from the game. Now you have improved the game 200%!
    • Up x 18
  2. AlexR

    Again "remove the thing i personally don't like" thread. Would not read again\10
    • Up x 27
  3. Iridar51

    Wholeheartedly agree with Mustarde.
    • Up x 3
  4. Kcalehc

    Except it is debatable, as you'll probably find out in the following pages; oh, and your strawman fell over.
    • Up x 10
  5. Pikachu

    Remove vanu.
    • Up x 7
  6. d3adline

    They are propably the most ridiculous crap anyone has ever put into an FPS game, I agree. But we'll have to deal with them. The dude who was in charge of infantry balance when the game was still in development didn't want them, but Higby insisted on putting them in because they are "planetside." And that kids is why we play MAXside now. Thanks Obama Higby.
    • Up x 2
  7. FieldMarshall

    70% playtime as infil, ofcourse you wont like MAXes.
    I usually agree with your posts and yes MAXes needs looking into, but i cant just ignore that this just looks like a thinly veiled "buff my class" thread.
    • Up x 1
  8. KirthGersen

    Remove hackers.
    Then remove NC.
    Then make some advertising.
    partially serious
  9. Kronias

    No, Planetside 1 got along just fine with MAXes in it. You already have 68745623125236 other shooters that don't have MAXes in it. The fact that you are suggesting to make PS2 even MORE generic than it already is all I needed to see to not take you seriously.
    • Up x 8
  10. TheMish

    Another baby who thinks Maxes are OP? Okay.

    I hate these useless people that expect everything to be these stupid 1 on 1 duels between 2 people like you see in Combat Arms and Call of Duty.

    Go play another game or shut the hell up.
    • Up x 7
  11. Iridar51

    Planetside 1 was a completely different game though. It's like comparing Lineage 1 to TERA Online.
    Pretty sure this baby would mop the floor with you. Even as Infiltrator against MAX.
    • Up x 2
  12. Kristan

    Remove yourself.

    How do you kill Infiltrator? Just shoot at it.
    How do you kill Light Assault? Just shoot at it.
    How do you kill Medic? Just shoot at it.
    How do you kill Engineer? Just shoot at it.
    How do you kill Heavy Assault? Just shoot at it.
    How do you kill MAX? Take cover, use C4, Rocket Launchers, use mines and grenades, act fast and smart. Why? Because "just shoot at it" wont work!

    Remove MAX and entire game is going to be "Just Shoot At It" :mad:
    • Up x 2
  13. Dualice

    I have to admit some of the most enjoyable brawls I've had recently have been those where nobody pulled a MAX.

    Whilst I believe your belligerence was quite unnecessary, I think you have a point with the 1v1 thing. I used to play PS2 as it was intended; a co-operative, combined arms, massive-scale game of conquest and capture. However, the increasing sense of lack of direction within the game has led me to play it more or less like a 1v1 shooter. Territory captures, resources ("nanites"), inter-facility fighting, all these sorts of things currently mean nothing. What else is there to do?

    And in playing the game in this way, few things are as annoying as a whacking-great armoured suit with dual-wield armageddon launchers.
    • Up x 1
  14. AlterEgo

  15. AlterEgo

    When THIS happens:
    [IMG]I wouldn't call the game a 1v1 fest.

    Also, you seem to love MAXes. Wouldn't you love this?
    Or this?
    • Up x 2
  16. BrbImAFK

    As awesome as OP is, and as much as I also hate MAX's, I still can't agree that taking them out is the right approach. That said, they need a serious rebalance and much more focus on their "role" in the game.

    Personally, I'd like to see the MAX become a squad-support tool. Pulling a solo-MAX, with no support, should be tantamount to suicide, rather than the current (virtually guaranteed, especially in smaller fights) 10+ kills before somebody competent comes along to kill you off.

    To that end, I'd propose longer TTK's for MAX's, more health, effective immunity to small-arms fire (virtually every class now has SOME form of counter for a MAX) and no resurrect or self-healing on MAX suits. Another possibility (maybe as a suit slot) is a small AoE resist shield that squaddies can hide behind.

    The current MAX abilities should be scrapped and replaced with:
    Defence - increased resists, sets weapon RoF to 50%, lockdown mode. When locked down, RoF returns to 100%. TR get a 25% boost to RoF while locked down. NC get a resist boost. VS get screwed (as they deserve!), I mean, repair boosts.
    Assault - normal resists, all weapon RoF's are 125%, charge.
    Skirmish - lower resists, weapons RoF's are 75%, damage is reduced, but accuracy is increased. Movement speed (in all axes) is increased, and they get a VERY limited version of the Planetside 1 VS MAX jump ability.

    This way, MAX's won't be the individual powerhouses they are today, but will still provide substantial boosts to their squads. Squads could build defensive walls with MAX's and engy turrets, but would then be vulnerable to 'nade spam. Or they could use their MAX's as mobile cover to support an advance. Or, with the skirmish role, the MAX could provide mobile fire-support for a squad because increased accuracy means they won't be mostly rubbish outside of 30m any more. Of course, weapons will need a rework, but that's no biggie. MAX weapons aren't exactly balanced to start with, so a rework is already necessary.
    • Up x 3
  17. Crayv

    MAXs are rather fragile for something that costs the same as an MBT. They do require support to really function well just like everything else in the game. They just have the advantage of going places that are for infantry, so infantry are normally close by. This means the only "easy" counter to a MAX is to pull another MAX (this is why the Hossin bonus is bad)

    Isn't this true for virtually everything to spend resources on? An MBT is certainly more powerful than an infantry unit or a Lightning. A person who spend resources on grenades/C4/medkits is more powerful than a person who doesn't use any infantry resources.

    Even then you can still kill a MAX by just shooting them. It's just not the best approach.

    One of the reasons Higby said he liked MAX was because of this very reason. It causes you to have to actually react and take it into consideration instead of just going through treating everything the same.
    • Up x 5
  18. Kronias

    No, see, he is instead referring to the people of this game that think the whole game should be bent and catered to the demands of the infantry players. "My TTK on X is longer than 1 second, too OP plz nerf".That is basically what this guy sounds like to me. Like he wants to remove anything that even resembles a challenge during his infantry time and seeks to do nothing but make the game even more like Battlefield than it already is. That to me is unacceptable. If you want to play Battlefield, go f***ing play Battlefield. MAXes have always been a part of PlanetSide, if you don't like it the door is right there. Everyone can say w/e they want about Higby. But without him this game would be nothing more than an MMO Sci Fi Battlefield clone. 2 Faction game with no MAXes. yea, we never see that <.<. The whole point of game development is to innovate, not keep making everything the same. MAXes are a relatively unique thing in a shooter, uniqueness should be encouraged, especially in this game where we have factions that are suppose to be different from each other. All I ever see on these forums and in this game are people complaining about the differences, about everything that makes this game stand apart from the carbon copy shooters. Everyone just keeps asking for every unique aspect to be nerfed or flat our removed from the game. All thats doing is making this game less special, and more like everyone else. That is not what this game should be, and thats what you should want it to be. I get the impression that most of you have played carbon copy shooters for so damn long, you can't even wrap your brains around a shooter that even slightly breaks the mold.
    • Up x 1
  19. Jawarisin

    I feel like they are a must-have sadly. The reason for that is that I think they are needed to counter armor.

    Without maxes, there is literally NOTHING that can be done about a bunch of tanks/sundies except bringing more tanks and sundies. Air is powerless, infantry is mostly powerless, other armor is on equal footing but gets out-zerged all the time.

    The only good way to be extremely efficient is with a max. Everything else is basically a waste of nanites.

    Also, although I do find them stupidly strong, bursters are needed to defend some bases against air. Most of the time not, but sometime yes. For instance, the Octagon (Waterson's Redemption), that base has no AA turret, and if armor is in front of your terminal, there's no way to pull a skyguard without getting insta-gibbed. Burster's your only option.
    Sure, lock on works, but they don't have the stupid range bursters have.

    Removing the Anti-Infantry gun? Maybe; but then that would make a whole lot of AV-Weapon-against-infantry-and-other-maxes balance problems.
    • Up x 1
  20. Dgross

    No. Better suggestions.

    Buff Fractures.
    Nerf Ravens.
    Remove splash damage from every MAX AV weapon.
    Decrease lockdown to 0.5 sec deploy/undeploy.