Accuracy Stats?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by a-koo-chee-moya, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. a-koo-chee-moya

    Whenever faction traits get brought up. NC and TR seem to naturally assume that VS weapons are more accurate. Any probing into the matter is met by a simple dismissal along the lines of "they just are" or "my experience says so". I have yet to see a real post with stat comparisons of more than a single group of weapon clones. I'd really like to see the real stats, thanks.

    Something that I'd like to note though, is that with all this talk about VS being a more accurate faction, there hasn't been a peep from the devs that I know of. They seem pretty concerned about PPA, but not something that allegedly affects all of a faction's weapons?
  2. Yeahy

    Why don't you look them up yourself and then counter their arguments with it?
    • Up x 4
  3. Fellgnome

    There are different things that affect player accuracy, which are not quite the same as the stats that specifically determine the precision of the gun.

    Things that for the most part can't be controlled and make a gun inherently less precise:

    Horizontal Recoil
    Starting CoF
    Variable angled pull (Such as NS-11C's min -20, max -17 left pull)

    Things that can be controlled to some degree but can make a gun more/less accurate depending on the player's handling:

    Vertical Recoil
    CoF bloom
    Non-variable angle pull (such as T5 AMC's min20, max20 right pull)
    Movement related CoF including hip-fire

    VS is below NC for the first kind of stats, since NC has more low horizontal recoil/ low starting CoF guns overall, but VS is still better than TR there. However, for the latter kind of stats, VS is probably the best. For players that just want easy to handle guns with middle-of the pack accuracy that's the VS arsenal in a nutshell - obviously with a few outliers.

    I consider NC the most accurate faction infantry weapon wise though, still. VS are the easiest to handle but many of their weapons lack in other more important areas for my preference. TR I'd say has the worst infantry weapons overall, unless you just want more bullets in your magazine above all else.
    • Up x 1
  4. Leftconsin

    Average all players of each faction:

    NC = 17.726%
    TR = 17.927%
    VS = 21.034%

    I think these numbers are telling.
  5. zombielores

    1. Horizontal recoil is just as controllable if not more then vertical recoil, as you just pull in the other direction that the weapon is angling towards [Bandit/Carv]. What isn't controllable is horizontal jitter, horizontal jitter is when they have a positive and a negative recoil angle or a non biased recoil angle with high horizontal tolerance causing the weapon to "shake" left and right [TAR/GR-22]

    2. Recoil/Bloom/Accuracy is primarily based on RoF, Damage, attachment options, and Weapon role. Take Razor, Merc, and Bandit for example, each has 167 damage tier but recoil varies among all 3 of them because of their possible attachments, RoF, and role, Razor is the long range so it has less raw power but better recoil and attacks suited for that while Bandit has the worst recoil of those 3 but more stopping power and the merc is a in between.

    3. Wouldn't say NC is more accurate and then turn around and say TR is least, when you look at the RoF department you see that TR has far more CQC weapons then NC, so if your going to make an comparison then do it with weapons in the same role category instead of making blanket arguments.

    TL; DR Weapons that lack raw stopping power are more controllable and weapons with more are less controllable, has little to do with faction but more to do with weapon role category and it's stats.
  6. Iridar51

    The real stats are here. If you don't know what they mean, I welcome you to my Gunplay Guide, where all of them are explained in detail.

    "Weapon Accuracy" doesn't have a clearly set definition everyone agrees on. In other words, everyone means a different thing by it.

    Recoil bias has nothing to do with horizontal recoil. It's the result of vertical recoil being affected by recoil angle.
    Horizontal recoil doesn't split into horizontal recoil and horizontal jitter. There is only horizontal recoil = horizontal jitter, and vertical recoil. All weapons have both these components. Both vertical and horizontal recoil are affected by recoil angle, if there is one.

    TRAC 5's recoil pattern:
    • Up x 3
  7. Demigan

    The stats are biased as well. People don't fire just when they see a player, but when they expect a certain amount of bullets to actually hit. If you don't expect to kill someone in one clip, you probably will move closer first before taking your shots. This means that people have an idea in their head of how many bullets need to connect, and make a subjective calculation as to how and when they need to shoot.
    Most of my weapons will be in the 20-30% accuracy range. Weapons with longer reloads usually have higher accuracy stats due to the penalty for missing, so you (or at least I do) take more care that my shots hit.
    If you take a random trawl through stat land, you'll find that a ton of people are also between the 20-30% range (although in general I look up players with lots of skill, so I might be off here). So VS might have higher accuracy weapons, but in general this means that the players will sooner think "this is the right distance" and start firing, resulting in about the same accuracy ratings. This means no-one can really tell from accuracy ratings how good the weapoon is, high accuracy weapons might warrant having this high accuracy in the first place to be effective, low accuracy weapons might be effective even when you miss most shots, or the weapon might be bad regardless. We can't be sure, so the stat is a rough guide at best, to be used when nothing else is available.
    • Up x 1
  8. ColonelChingles

    There's mechanical accuracy and practical accuracy.

    Mechanical accuracy is what happens when I lock down a gun in a vise and shoot it under perfectly controlled conditions. This is the accuracy that Iridar is referring to, and the sort of accuracy that people talk about when they compare CoF, bloom, recoil, etc.

    Practical accuracy is what happens when I use a firearm under typical battlefield conditions. Many more things can affect practical accuracy, including shooter skill, enemy mobility, engagement range, sight design, etc.

    In terms of mechanical accuracy some people (not necessarily me) say that the VS tend to have the least recoil out of the bunch. In certain cases this may be true. Take for instance the starter carbines, the Solstice VE3, TRAC-5, and Mercenary. Out of the bunch, the Solstice has the least vertical recoil and is tied for the least CoF recoil and recoil growth. The only "bad" thing about the Solstice is it has the highest FSM.

    In terms of practical accuracy the VS seem to have a slight lead in some categories at least. Again looking at the starter carbines the TR are the least accurate (19.3% with the TRAC-5), with the NC in the middle (19.8% with the Mercenary) and the VS being the most accurate (20.6% with the Solstice).

    Again, I'm not sure I subscribe to the VS being more accurate overall because you need to look at more data than just a few categories... but at least that's why some people might think the way they do.

    VS Magriders though are significantly more accurate than their MBT counterparts, though this is largely due to the chassis and not the weapon.
  9. Liberty

    It is probably worth nothing that the lower RoF / damage tier weapons tend to be more accurate. Higher RoF tends to lead to more recoil, and higher damage tier = more bloom per shot. The solstice being at the bottom of that list for DPS also should be the most controllable.

    NC weapons are the most accurate in the hands of a player who knows how and when to burst fire. VS weapons are probably a bit more accurate for those who simply hold down the trigger until a reload happens. So the "Ease of use" isn't exactly wrong, for the starter carbine/AR, for LMG's it is a little different in that both the Carv and Orion tend to bounce a bit, but the Orion being the CQC LMG has better hipfire. The NC get kind of screwed with a starter LMG as far as ease of use goes.

    So really, VS do start out "more accurate" but they are also lower DPS and lower Damage per mag, but the other factions can unlock their more accurate options and the VS does the same with their higher DPS weapons.
  10. Xasapis

    Partially true. It also has to do with the shorter engagement distances compared to the other two, due to the worst cannon performance at range.
    • Up x 2
  11. a-koo-chee-moya

    The problem with this is that you are assuming that all factions have an equally skilled player base. I'm not sure of any stats that prove that. Also, I could assume from this that VS weapons are significantly less accurate. Why? Well, I could speculate that VS is opening up on enemies later than their counterparts due to worse accuracy, thus hitting more shots overall. Other stats do show that this assumption is pretty false, but this reply is just to point out that you can't just use one stat to prove a theory.
    • Up x 1
  12. Iridar51

    Why wouldn't they? You know that statements "faction X/Y/Z is so weak on A/B/C server" don't actually mean anything, right? It's just people explaining to themselves why are they losing "omg my faction is so bad" is merely an excuse for own failures.

    It's like battlegrounds in WoW. Both Horde and Alliance constantly whine on battlegrounds "OMG my faction is such noobs, and their faction is so good".

    It's an aspect of human psychology, nothing more. They believe it, and they will create compelling arguments so you believe it too, but that won't make it true. I have no reason to believe that factions are not equal in "skill", whatever that might be in the context of this discussion.
  13. a-koo-chee-moya

    The real question is, Why would they? There's nothing that proves that they do, even though equal skill is symmetrical.
  14. Vaphell

    equally skilled player base is a good assumption, unless you can provide an explanation what makes VS lure all the good players.
    Even then, if some disproportionate number of mlg-ready players is VS biased i don't think it's enough to explain 17% better accuracy across the board.
  15. Iridar51

    Because on average people are average.
    • Up x 1
  16. a-koo-chee-moya

    A good assumption, maybe, but can you back that up with facts? No statistic can show that X faction has Y amount of skill, so you can't assume anything about overall faction skill. Therefore, just plain accuracy stats can't really back up one argument, as I just showed. You have to put out more stats.
  17. a-koo-chee-moya

  18. CipherNine

    Well you could compare accuracy of NS weapons across factions.
    • Up x 2
  19. Iridar51

    Not until we define what skill is for the purposes of this discussion. SPM? HSR? K/D? Accuracy? All of the above with specific infantry weapons to rule out PPA, MAXes and other inflators?
    Size of the sample? Top 100? Top 1000? All active players?

    And even then, I'm not exactly thrilled with the prospect of surveying entire PS2 playerbase.

    You ask if VS players are more accurate. Stats posted above show they are. I'm not sure what more do you want. A skill to accuracy ratio or something?
  20. a-koo-chee-moya

    I asked if VS weapons are more accurate. The single stat proves nothing due to the lack of other information. I'll go back and quote something I said. "Also, I could assume from this that VS weapons are significantly less accurate. Why? Well, I could speculate that VS is opening up on enemies at closer than their counterparts due to worse accuracy, thus hitting more shots overall. Other stats do show that this assumption is pretty false, but this reply is just to point out that you can't just use one stat to prove a theory."