According to this definition, all you players who don't try to win are stat padding

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NotsiMadz, Feb 25, 2021.

  1. NotsiMadz

    (sports, gaming) An action that improves a player's statistics despite being of little benefit to his or her team or its chance of winning.

    What's wrong with my argument?

    I challenge you to prove me wrong or to provide any form of argument that shows that I'm wrong.

    That yellow sentence describes EXACTLY, 100%, how most of PS2's player base plays this game.

    Edit -> Difference is : they call it FARMING.


    Assuming it is true, then DBG / Rogue Games ACTIVELY support stat padding by providing incentives for PS2 players to "improve their statistics despite being of little benefit to their faction or its chance of winning."
    • Up x 2
  2. iller

    Most MMORPG's have a sort of "end game" where the core gameplay loop isn't just collecting the same Rat Skins you were collecting at BR10 ... The End game loop for PS2 once you're tired of buying more guns with your certs, and tired of buying Respec's for your ASP's ... is the Directives I guess? Basically "Badges".

    I think one of the biggest things they could have done differently from the beginning, was let Assists count towards Directives. ...the other one is obviously not having such insanely high Critical rates well PAST 100% body damage on automatic weapon headshots. That would also lead to more Teamwork kills in theory.

    The rest of the problem is just the Lattice and Objective design which isn't really my area so I leave that up to the other regulars here to sort out
  3. NotsiMadz

    I don't think you're wrong, but I think there's a lot more to it than that, like for example the spawn system or, providing incentives.

    For example, how rewarding is it to win an Alert? You get a couple hundred certs, some XP, a bit of ISO..... that's just one of many examples.
  4. Demigan

    A German Shepard is a dog, not all dogs are German shepards.

    Stat-padding is an action that improves a player's statistics. Not all actions that imrpove a player's statistics are stat-padding.

    Also if the main goals of the game are horribly designed players should be looking to find alternative ways to enjoy it. Even if it means you get into a very very badly defined word you found in a dictionary.
    A better way to describe stat-padding is "an action deliberately designed to improve the player's statistics regardless of it's actual effect on the game". Because you can easily stat-pad while fulfilling the goals of the game. In fact if stats include counters for accomplishing goals of the game you can try to stat-pad those, however hard it might be.

    For an example of those: Look at Outfits that capture bases by avoiding fights and only doing ghost-caps/zergs.
    Hey I just pushed your own crap into your face! What fun!
    • Up x 1
  5. InexoraVC

    I've created a character to play only for k/d. According to first post this is stat padding. Shame on me ... :))
  6. That_One_Kane_Guy

    • Up x 1
  7. ZDarkShadowsZ

    Based on your definition, I would say that you are not wrong. I have no interest in proving otherwise.

    However, I will say that PlanetSide 2 has very loose goals in what is considered 'winning'. While the game's aim is to simply to capture continents over and over, it is a requirement to kill other players. Sometimes it is a requirement to revive, or give ammo. These don't always benefit one player but they may benefit another. Given the game's loose winning design, players themselves come up with their own goals. Not everybody's goals are the same, however some goals are closely linked.

    Having to kill the same person over and over to reach an objective such as a capture point is considered an intended part of the game. Tucking oneself in the corner of the map with either another computer setup or a friend to boost weapon kill score is not an intended part of the game, however it is an option players undertake. It could be argued the first statement is statpadding. Based on your definition, it very well could be, but it could also be a matter of perspective.

    Is a person killing the same player over and over to pad kills for weapon score, or are they doing it in order to reach the capture point. While the person could stop killing the same player over and over, that same player being killed could stop accepting a revive or respawn elsewhere. Again, matter of perspective.
    • Up x 2
  8. OneShadowWarrior

    Welcome to Campside,

    Your right, kill/death ratio is all that matters, not outfits, not winning, none of that. It’s either camp with a vehicle or exploit certain weapons, like sniping and cloaking, using a submachinegun or shotgun, crowding your space, controlling a choke point or camping a player in larger numbers and shooting them in the back or blindsiding them, roadkilling them, slamming them with aircraft and the best part getting them stuck in spawn tubes or at a sunderer.

    Welcome to Campside, Daybreak and Rogue Planet made it this way.
    • Up x 1
  9. Campagne

    I'd say it's not accurate to PS2, in the sense you imply.

    Combined with really no real way for the team to "win" most actions involved other players. It's either supporting allies or fighting hostile players actively working against the player, which is the opposite of padding.
    • Up x 1
  10. Demigan

    Lets put it like this:

    You are trying to tell everyone "I give you a (broken) definition to shame you and play the way I want you to play". This will never work. I could tell you a million times how the gameplay you want us to play is a broken piece of ***** that goes straight against the game's design, but that wont convince you either will it?

    PS2 was designed as an MMO shooter. This was the hook, the goal of the gameplay. The developers tried to make sure players actually got into that hook by creating goals designed to get players to get into the same area. The developers specifically cut down on the amount of objectives available in bases to make sure players would meet and fight over the remaining objectives.
    The goal of the game isnt to capture continents, the goal of the game is to provide players with an entertaining MMOFPS. This means that all objectives in the game have to be focussed on that. Capturing the continent should never have been about avoiding fights and zerging everything.
    Its funny actually, here you are proclaiming everyone who enjoys a good solid fight is wrong, but in reality the game was designed to give them exactly that experience. The unfortunate part is that the overarching objective of capturing the continent does not drive players to do that, players have to get stuck in those fights by choice.

    Which is why I'll repeat myself:


    Make playing for the continent fun. This isnt a black or white deal where the devs can either cater to capturing the continent or to players who enjoy the actual way the game was designed to be played. Capturing the continent was added later and without care for the game's original design, we need to redesign capturing the continent so you can enjoy playing the game as designed while also capturing the continent.
    • Up x 1
  11. MonnyMoony

    Define "win" in Planetside 2.

    One might argue that there is no way to win this game. Even 'winning' alerts aren't really winning, they are just another way of earning certs, in many ways no different from gaining a kill, taking a base - its just on a larger scale.

    Everything in Planetside 2 is just grind. You kill an enemy, then move on to the next enemy. You take a base, then move onto the next base. You take a continent, then move onto the next continent - only difference is scale and timeframe.
    • Up x 1
  12. csvfr

    Today for example on Cobalt with 5 minutes left of a prime time alert it was a dead even between NC/VS - NC needing one more base from VS to win. Large 100+ player fights had formed at the VS held bases on the side lanes, only 12-24 and no sunderers at the centre area, and someone had managed to sneak in a sunderer at an uncontested VS base and started the capture timer there for NC. I told my platoon mates to go to the newly started attack, which already had 12 friendlies there vs just one enemy at that time. Unfortunately my mates reckoned reinforcing the 100+ fights were better maybe because they were "bigger" (and thus more important), or as the new fight already had "an overpop" (and hence it isn't a good fight). One minute later the points had flipped back and forth at the 100+ fights and there were no possibility for NC to capture any base in time except for the one at the sneak attack. This base too then faced a swift VS pop dump and recapture by maybe 15 VS soldiers while NC had 100s of players being useless at the bases that could never be captured in time.

    The point is that most players were trying to win, maybe consciously or because the "J" button sent them there, but many may find it counterintutive when a 1.5H "war" basically boils down to redeploying to the "right" base during the last couple of minutes. This can happen alot too actually it is not uncommon for alerts to end this way as any faction that amasses too much territory with too much time left will be double teamed.
    • Up x 1
  13. NotsiMadz

    A square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn't a square is the one you were looking for I think.

    And both (the dog and square) are true but don't apply in this case.

    It's not "square" = stat padding and "rectangle" = player statistics. It's (to rephrase your sentence) stat padding is an action that improves a player's statistics and -> "despite being of little benefit to his or her team or its chance of winning."
  14. NotsiMadz

    No, you mis understand.

    There is no shame at all, at least, not in this thread.

    What I posted is wrong and I was challenging anyone to prove me wrong. However, there is a real issue for which in this way, I'm trying to draw attention to.
  15. NotsiMadz

    thank you for your constructive feedback !
  16. NotsiMadz

    When I started this thread, I knew what I was posting wasn't "correct", it was a kind of creative attempt to draw attention to an issue that has (in my opinion) been a problem for years now and is getting worse.

    I think there are 2 points that show why my OP is wrong. One of them is the one you raised, you can't really "win" at PS2. You can win a fight, you can win a pvp encounter, you can win an alert, but there isn't really a way to "win" the game.

    So if you can't win at the game, you can't really stat pad at the game either.

    That said, stat padding is against the rules, and if you kill too many turrets you get suspended (I got suspended for that, I was killing turrets to help complete the Kraken directive) or if you go to a corner of hte map with a freind from another faction and you kill each other repeatedly (I never did that) you could get sanctioned for stat padding.

    Which then raises a question, if there is no game to win, how could you ever stat pad? The answer to which is that that definition is wrong in the first place, the definition of stat padding I used is wrong. (whichi was the 2nd point).


    I feel this is an important question to discuss or at least think about, a fundamental one; what is the aim of the game? What are we supposed to do?

    When I and a minority of players try to win an Alert, are we the ones doing it wrong? Are we the ones not playing the game as intended?

    edit --> (forgot second point) and what about the devs? what do THEY want? And how much influence do they have on this kind of question?
  17. NotsiMadz

    You're right, just like 2DarkShadowsZ (to which I replied in the post immediatly above).
    • Up x 1
  18. NotsiMadz

    You're partially right, you're partially wrong because not "everything" is just grind. Winning an alert or a fight or any other pvp encounter isn't a grind and is (I think) the core of the game.

    That said, you're right that there is no way to win this game. Which means you can't stat pad according to that definition.

    Campagne raises the same point, also 2DarkShadowsZ to which I replied two posts above this one.
  19. NotsiMadz

    I find it really difficult, in fact it's almost impossible, to figure out if players do what they do because they lack experience or are making a tactical or strategical mistake, or if it's because they couldn't care less about winning.

    It's hard to tell because in both cases, they tend to behave in the exact same way.
  20. iller

    I don't like bringing the idiots of Reddit into this stuff, but I think their latest thread is especially hilarious and oddly topical to this, it's a thread about Stat Padders abusing the new warp to Sanctuary functionality. Mostly because it's people who already completely exceeded far and beyond just maintaining a 1.0 KDR (like I strive for), and it's ironically complained about by other people with insanely high KPM's and KDR's themselves who are desperately trying to claim that they're not Stat Padders either even though they generally only use Farming weapons as opposed to Tactical-Suppression weapons a majority of the time they play.