[Suggestion] AC-X11 Needs a 25 round magazine

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by CanadianAttackBeaver, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Corezer

    The Jaguar is a mid range carbine, with a small number of close range traits (lower hip CoF being most notable) and a lot of close range attachments that allow it to perform a hybrid role.

    The ACX-11 is also a mid range carbine, with a small number of long range traits (0 ADS CoF being most notable) and a lot of long range attachments that allow it to perform a hybrid role.

    The Razor-GD23 would go up against the T5 AMC, and the Lynx against the GD-7F.

    I also understand where the equipment would be used, and with the changes I suggest the Jag would retain its close range advantages of hip CoF, ADS speed, bloom and attachments, while the ACX-11's additional damage would not exacerbate it's long range advantage at all as the slope would be steeper to reach minimum damage at the same distance. This would however serve to bring it's mid range capabilities more in line with where they should be.

    Right now it just gets too effected by regen/nanoweave/shields to be useful with such a small magazine, this would help with that without effecting the magazine size, which would carry over to further buffing its already impressive long range capabilities.
  2. Erendil

    It might be just semantics, but I see the Jag more as a short range weapon with only limited usefulness at medium range since you start to miss shots even at 50m and it falls apart around 70m due to its bad horizontal recoil and slow muzzle velocity, as well as its typical loadout which includes the adv laser and soft ammo.

    OTOH the AC-X11 has just one mid range trait (slightly low muzzle velocity, which can be mitigated with HV ammo) but a ton of characteristics indicative of a long range weapon: 0 ADS CoF, low Horizontal recoil, high damage per shot & low RoF, low first shot recoil, bad hipfire accuracy, all the long range attachments (comp, adv foregrip, 6x scope, HV ammo), long dropoff curve (min damage is @85m, 20m farther than any other carbine), and small mag.

    So though I pretty much agree with you about the Jag, my view of the AC-X11 seems quite different from yours. Regardless, you only compared them at the edge of CQC range (16m), which plays to the Jag's strengths but is the last place you want to use the AC-X11. You're also not taking into account that the AC-X11 has twice the effective range of the Jag.

    IMO the range where you want to use these weapons only overlap by about 30-40m, so for me it's a bad comparison which is why I suggested a better one would be against the T5.

    Yep, those would be the ideal matchups. But since the TR don't have an AC-X11 equivalent the best matchup for it in my eyes would also be the T5. It's a similar situation for the Jag. There's no NC equivalent but the closest one is the GD-7F.

    The TTK between these two weapons is within .1s at all ranges regardless of Nanoweave level and often in favor of the AC-X11: http://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh100-10-10/la/1.25/7170/7193

    I can't speak to the effect of regen or HA overshields but I'm guessing the variance between these weapons isn't more than 1-2 bullets. I don't have an issue with increasing the AC-X11's damage a little but I don't' think this is enough to warrant it.

    However, how would a larger mag buff its long range ability? In long range firefights you want to stay behind cover as much as possible to minimize your risk, so you tend to pace your fights by firing at just one target at a time and ducking behind cover to reload after each target goes down. Five more shots in the mag won't change that situation much. Plus you're less likely to be attacked from more than one direction (angle of attack shrinks as range increases) so staying behind cover for reloads is more viable.

    As the range gets closer and you get closer to enemy positions you're more likely to get flanked and attacked at different angles so the same piece of cover becomes less useful and you're more likely to have to kill multiple targets before your position is safe enough to duck and reload. So I would think a larger mag helps short and medium range fights, not long range ones.
  3. Zerran

    Take a look at this: http://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh30-10-10/la/1.25/7170/7193

    This is assuming a shooter skill of 30%. Notice what happens beyond extremely short range, the AC-X11 runs out of bullets and has to reload. This is the most crippling factor for this gun. Unless you have some ungodly accuracy, you will often run dry before your enemy is dead. This is especially common at longer ranges, where it deals less damage and that slow bullet velocity really cripples its ability to hit moving targets.

    The reason the AC-X11 needs more rounds is that its damage per clip is simply too low to be able to reliably kill at long range without having to reload.

    5 more rounds would give it 25% more damage per mag, or in other words the same killing potential vs. NW5 that it currently has against NW0.


    In the above, I reduced the NW level to 0. This simulates the damage per mag as if it had 25% more rounds and was firing against a NW5 target (although of course the TTK is different, I am not talking about that).

    Notice that now, with a shooter skill of 30, it can kill up to 40 meters without having to reload, as opposed to 10 meters. In other words, it can actually do its job.


    The above is the biggest reason the AC-X11 is a pile of crap. The only carbines that have lower damage per magazine are the short range carbines of NC and VS when used beyond 35 meters. The TR carbines are miles ahead in terms of damage per magazine, which is what makes them so nice. They simply do not run out of ammo until their target is dead. The AC-X11 does, and this is even worse the longer range it goes. Notice that in most cases, the longer range carbines have greater damage per mag, and this is precisely why. Larger magazine size helps 2 things for weapons like these: 1. Taking down multiple targets, and 2. taking down targets at long range without running dry.

    The 200 damage per shot of the AC-X11 is a nice big number, but it is useless when it cannot down a target in 1 magazine, and has a higher TTK than many other weapons. http://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh30-10-10/la/1/7170/7193/7173H/3/7169S/7211/17

    The TTK on the AC-X11 there is very average (in fact it is worse than average), but it has the highest chance of needing to reload.

    25% more rounds per magazine is not even enough, imo, to make this a balanced weapon, but it would be a good start if nothing else. I would personally like to also see a sizeable increase in round velocity.
  4. Erendil

    Good info there, but you're preachin' to the choir, brother Vanu. :cool: Just to clarify, as I stated on the previous page of this thread I do agree that the AC-X11 needs 5 more rounds in its mag. :) I just don't think that the effects of medic/regen kit healing or the effects of HA's Overshield sufficient reasoning to warrant such an increase. Nor is comparing it to a weapon designed for a different combat range. That's why I was kinda playing Devil's Advocate to Corezer....

    Although I do want to comment on the 30% graph. It can be a bit misleading since although the TTK graph takes a 30% accuracy into account, the 30% accuracy stat itself does not take range into account. IOW, your accuracy should be much higher than that at short range and gets lower as range increases. At 30m you should still be at or near 100% accuracy. If the target isn't moving much laterally you can maintain >30% accuracy even past 120m.

    The only weapons with faster TTKs in your last graph are two short-ish range weapons (Jag and GD-7F) and the Merc, which is lower at some ranges and higher at others. Plus the Merc doesn't have quite the long range capability nor the attachments available to it that the AC-X11 does. And that TTK jump around 40m is only the result of using an average accuracy value across all ranges, not a typical accuracy at 40m (which would be much higher). Looks pretty balanced TBH. But yeah, that small mag size could start to cause problems at around 100m or so.

    A muzzle velocity boost would be nice but I'd prefer they reduce the maximum horizontal recoil so its .175/175 instead of .175/.2 like it is now. Slow velocity you can adjust for with skill. Horizontal velocity you can't.

    That's in addition to the extra 5 rounds in the mag of course. :cool:
  5. Dinapuff

    i dont see why the ac-x11 (or the reaper dmr) should be penalized for its 200 damage max in this way when the god saw exists in its current format. 10 extra rounds!

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