[Suggestion] About Vanu Heat Mechanic

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by a-koo-chee-moya, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. CNR4806

    Let's guess, which is going to be more rational:
    1. A bunch of people who gives "feedback" to a weapon mechanic that they have no access to, because they're limited to a very small clique of elites, basing their entire opinion on scarce videos and comments from said elites.
    2. A bunch of people who gives feedback to a weapon mechanic that they have, at the very least, access through PTS testing and/or VR testing.

    And no, just because you don't give the guns in question to the majority, doesn't mean that said majority will promptly shut up and leave it to you. Forumside does not work that way.
  2. TheKhopesh

    I wouldn't mind seeing this as a VS-only "ammo" option.
    Obviously it would replace HV/SP ammos (But those are specialty range options, and wouldn't be too huge a sacrifice for infinite ammo).
  3. tgipier

    SOE could just ignore the the mass as they should.
  4. Xasapis

    One thing I would suggest is to drop the forced reload mechanism completely. Those guns suffer already for a poor amount of bullets in the clip. Reaching the end of the clip and forcing a reload on top of that is an unnecessary overkill in my opinion. If they need to have 20% less bullets than the normal guns, then they might as well get rid of reload altogether.

    You can still keep manual reload as a means of heat dump mechanism, but please don't force reload when the heat reaches the end of the clip.
  5. Kociboss

    It's the 1st one I stumbled upon.

    I think that some VS players are whining for the sake of whining.
  6. sindz

    And you have no clue how it works until you try it yourself. Get back to me when you cursed at your monitor for having a 35round lmg with a delay before the actual CD starts.

    Funny how TR and NC players are telling VS players who auraxiumed 5 weapons inorder to get screwed over by a currently broken mechanic that acts as a nerf more than anything else, that they are "whining".
  7. Xasapis

    The Betelgeuse is the least problematic of the three, because it has 40 bullets, thus enough DPS to kill your targets before overheating. The only thing you can't really do is wear down a MAX the way you'd o with a gun with more bullets and kill multiple enemies in quick succession. The problems however start when trying to use the other two weapons, especially the Darkstar. Btw, the Darkstar is getting yet another buff in the PTS, so we'll see if that improves things a bit.

    For me, the biggest problem with those 25 bullet weapons is the forced reload when they overheat. In real battle situations it happens very often with the Darkstar and the Eclipse (I'd say once every three targets) and relatively rarely with the Betelgeuse (once every 10, if that).
  8. Kociboss

    I don't have it and that's why I looked up some videos (I was too busy getting my unity, shuriken and butcher lately, didn't play my VS at all).

    Why "screwed over"? It's a testing field and I'd rather have experienced VS speak their mind over hordes of nobodies.
    From what I've seen, experienced players were able to utilize its strengths perfectly.

    It looks solid to me.

    I still think that some VS players are whining for the sake of whining... To win the argument for the sake of winning argument not actually giving feedback.

    Welcome to the interwebz I guess~
    • Up x 1
  9. sindz

    Looking at it on videos =//= actually used it.

    Because, in the history of planetside 2, how fast would you say re-balancing something that has put out there by SOE has been? Striker took 9 months, ZoE too long - both in broken state and in current useless state. So yeah, if it actually served as a testing field and a re visit to the heat mechanic would happen relatively fast - most VS players wouldnt care that much. But from past experience, this is just yet another pin in the questionable VS arsenal, which quite frankly is getting tiresome.

    How can you utilize something that isnt good or even comparable to what other factions have or even normal bullet guns VS have? A 20-25 round AR and carbine with 143 dmg model and current form of heat mechanic, is no matter how you look at it another drawback. Reasons for this has been stated across the forum multiple places. Unlimited ammo does not even begin to outweigh a limited mag size.

    People without any experience, trying to tell the actual players who have the guns in question - and even without having fired a single shot themselves - Welcome to the interwebz i guess.
  10. Kociboss

    I'm not telling you how to use it.

    I said 2 things:

    1) It looks fine to me.

    2) I think some VS players are whining for the sake of whining.

    That is LITERALLY all I've said.

    So please move on.
  11. Xasapis

    One thing that people need to keep in mind is that once the gun gets in overheat mode, switching to pistol and then back to the gun does not negate the reload animation, which resumes the moment you go back to your primary.
  12. sindz

    And all I said was,

    Looks can be deceiving.

    It's not "whining" its a legitimate concern VS players have.

  13. Xasapis

    The main concern is the trade off really. You basically trade 20% of your ammo pool for unlimited ammo in the inventory. The problem is that in the majority of cases the majority of people die well before they run out of ammo in their inventory, plus engineer ammo pouches are usually very easy to find. So if this becomes a default mode and a universal mechanism for all VS weapons, the downside of having even smaller ammo clip does not balance the upside of having no need for engineer resupply.
  14. sindz

    If they want to keep current heat mechanic, VS would need either better accuracy on the guns or a higher dmg model.
  15. Xasapis

    To be fair, you get a second perk with the heat mechanism, the no need to reload. Unfortunately, this only applies to Betelgeuse, because with the Darkstar and the Eclipse you constantly tie yourself to the forced reload animation due to the very small clip.

    That's why I would like to see the forced reload when overheating, scrapped. It is an extra disadvantage of using those weapons unfortunately.
  16. sindz

    No reload doesn't matter much when you are dead if you dont land the majority of your bullets / engage more than 1 target.

    Well to sum the major problems as of right now:

    - Too few bullets before it overheats.
    - The delay before the cooldown actually sets in, needs to be removed or the the actual cooldown needs to be faster.

    Solution could be:

    - simply add more bullets to the guns before they overheat

    - Higher dmg model for the fewer bullets, (either 167, 200 or make a new dmg model for heat mechanic weapons), or give the guns better accuracy because you need to land more shots in order to compete with other factions.

    Still its not competitive and esport people would have a heart attack using weapons like this. And still VS engineers need something
  17. DFDelta

    I'm at around 700 kills with the Eclipse, about 500 of them made with the heat mechanic.

    My opinion so far:

    What the mechanic really shines in are large teamfights, defending rooms, playing peek-a-boo on rooftops. Such things.
    If you have the option to fire in bursts and take cover the heat works like ultra fast short reloads. You can kill a guy, dive into cover and be back a second later with a full magazine, faster then enyone who needs to reload ever could.
    I've had huge fun with it tower-stomping and camping rooftops.
    Infinite ammo is also a huge boost in squadplay and for lone-wolfing LAs. With friends who use the darkstar/battlegoose (HarHar) we have started to sometimes forego the mandatory squad-engi and bring more dakka instead.

    Where the heat mechanic defininately does not work well is whenever actual and immediate stopping power is required. CQC hipfire, storming rooms, small squad combat, short ranged 1 vs 1 combat. Every situation where you'd rely on spray and pray, where dps are too important to burst or time is too essential to carefully aim you can feel the huge downside of having only 25 shots/"magazine".
    I've never lost so many short range fight as I do with the heat-Eclipse. Not even with the CQC-challenged PulsarC or ACX11.
    I pretty much feel like I am forced to travel with the UBSG active, because an unforseen run-in with an enemy with the carbine out lets me end up with my pistol in hand more often then not.

    DasAnfall stats gives me 27.9% (VS), 27.7% (TR) and 28.1% (NC) average accuracy, before taking into account that I have the habit of searching for Stalkers with random bullet spam instead of the more reasonable flashlights (taking that into account, I might have 1 or 2 percent higher accuracy then shown in the stats). I don't know where the average accuracy is, but I'd guess it is around 25%.
    If I run out of shots on a regualar basis with 29~ish % accuracy then the average random with 25~ish % will do so even more often (duh).

    I also think the low damage/magazine is a slight problem for average players going against heavies. With 25% accuracy I'm not even sure if you can reliably kill a shielded and nanoweaved heavy in a single discharge without cooldowns.

    My conclusion:
    The heat mechanic so far works fine, it is definately in a okay~ish spot right now, not nearly as bad as many VS feared it would be.
    The weapons does need a slight buff, though (preferably in accuracy), or else random non-HA VS infantry will end up as a almost free kill when encountered alone.

    Personally I am happy with the mechanic right now. And I consider it a step in the right direction to finally get really "empire specific" factions.
  18. Noktaj

    You can't.
    I know I can't :D

    Nice report.
    But I'm inclined to differ. Heat works fine on the Betelgeuse but Darkstar and Eclipse are a luckluster in terms of, as you put it, stopping power. As much as I've tried to use them I've constatly been switching back to others "stardard ammo" weapons every time I was on "serious" business and not just trolling around / trying the new stuff.

    Once again, the heat mechanics need a little, just a little buff to make it truly viable (and not OP).
    Either the AR/carbines need to fire those 3-4 more bullets before overheat, or the heat need to cool down much faster so that you can truly burst-fire, or they need to be far more accurate or do more damage per bullet.
    They are good suppressing weapons, but when you need to kill, they feels like they are throwing feathers at the enemies. :(
  19. tgipier

    What I am saying is, if you havent used the weapon and are from a completely different faction, probably you dont have enough experience with heat mechanic to make a judgement at this point. I am not making a judgement on darkstar and eclipse for the reason I havent used them.
  20. Kociboss

    I'll just leave it here.