A2AM are OP

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by fart11eleven, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. TheFlamingLemon

    A2AM sacrifice A2G of other missiles or afterburner speed for an advantage on air to air. It doesn't seem very unbalanced to me, but I don't have a ton of experience with A2A missiles. I've only been killed by them twice, and both times I feel that it was perfectly fair.
    • Up x 3
  2. Taemien

    Its worked half the time for me. Out of the times it doesn't and I get hit by a missile, I FS off the damage and it takes two more to get me. I MIGHT get hit by a second, chances it will impact the warpgate (if I got to go that far). Its very rare (usually in a 2v1, 3v1, or 30v1 scenario) that I get taken down by a lockon.

    The issue is that if you sit in an area long enough firing your nosegun, someone's going to come at you with lockons. Bring your own, or go elsewhere. A2A beats Air. Period. Or become god's gift to ESF's and beat them. That's really the only choices there is.

    Tanks have to deal with AV loadouts beating their mixed loadouts.

    Infantry have to deal with AI weapons.

    Air's got to deal with the <10 weapons meant to counter them.
    • Up x 2
  3. CNR4806

    If that is true, it means that these people are going out of their way to abandon the route that is known to be the most efficient.

    If you are purposefully abandoning the most efficient route, you have no right to complain that the route you chose isn't the most efficient because you've made a conscious choice to use the less efficient route.

    It's like saying "I like the NS PDW, so why can't it beat the Armistice in DPS? ARMISTICE OP NERF", and it's, frankly speaking, childish.
    • Up x 4
  4. fart11eleven

    The standard nosegun + AB is imo also an A2A loadout. Same goes for the short range nose guns of each ESF + AB. The AB just gives you mobility in A2A ESF fights. I also think it is not the harder route to take. It is completely viable, you just have to practice it a bit.

    I understand the whole "but its by design cause it is A2A loadout", but it takes away the fun being crushed by lesser skilled pilots, which know how to use the A2A loadout. And your counter options are simply not viable. The decoy flares are not good enough to equip against this, so the only choice is to go A2AM yourself? This is stupid. If there weren't so many decent pilots out there, the airgame would end up in a single lockon fest. Great ...

    I still think the lockon time (or range) should be reduced across all upgrades + default, because it the skill gap is simply too big. Let's number this: let's say we have skilllevel 1 - 6. The skill gap should be 1 for an A2AM pilot to kill me. If for example he is 4 and i am 5, then it is ok, but not 3 against 5 or even 4 against 6. So the skill gap is too high, it should be allowing just a gap of 1, if we take into it that it is a designed loadout to simply be superior in A2A ESF fights.
    • Up x 1
  5. Sh4n4yn4y

    The A2AM are designed to wreck pilots pulling nosegun builds. Their whole purpose is to take out aircraft, and they're effective at it. It's also a way for newbies to get into the air game, and for people getting infuriated at us sky knights rolling them on the ground to get back at us.

    I am a pretty much full time ESF pilot who prefers A2G (Will always prioritize enemy aircraft though.), and I recognise that we are a major pain in the ****, and there needs to be hard counters against us. Sure, having 12 lockons from the ground is annoying, but I can hide behind a hill, and dodging missiles is relatively easy now. Flak? I can hide behind a hill. ESFs running A2A builds? I have to fight them, and if they get the drop on me, usually lose. Which gives the poor ground pounders below a few minutes respite.

    Welcome to the style of Planetside 2. There is always something designed specifically to wreck you. It is good at it's job. And you will complain about it every. Blasted. Time.
    • Up x 3
  6. GriffinTalon

    Going to jump in cause I'm bored and break at work.

    Main problem is that you can't really balance everything by 1v1 fights ground or air. Now 90% of my time is in a gal being a crazy person getting directives just got my 100 ram kill recently, so can't really comment on 'duels' but if I have to get a esf because tr/nc are causing issue in the air then I will pull lock ons because to me it's the best way if getting them away so we can get more of our own air and ground to get flak or something.

    My objective is to kill everything and get the Base If that disrupts a duel and ruins someone's fun with a missile so be it, if I'm in a lighting and get hit by c4 then I'm not paying attention , over extended my self or that guy was good to sneak up on me, they have ruined my fun but it's the point of the blasted game kill and get the Base.
    • Up x 1
  7. Cyrek

    They are simply not THAT good, on paper yes they are easy to use, but try locking on an experienced player who reverse maneuvers all over your screen the split second you try to get a lock, pain in the posterior.
    But believe me I think the difficulty of the lockon pods is determined by the player you're trying to catch, amateurs will be an easy kill, experienced, will be significantly harder to kill no matter how you put it; It takes four missiles to down a fighter with fire suppression, do you seriously think you have all day to score those lock ons, no, you'll still have to use the nose gun to deliver the finishing blow, I am talking of true experience as a auraxium medal Tomcats user. This "fart11eleven" has no idea what he's talking about.
    • Up x 1
  8. Pirbi

    1. I don't think "ace pilot" would use lock-ons
    2. Using lock-ons in a true 1v1 duel with an actual "ace pilot" puts the lock-on user at a disadvantage.
    3. 1v1 on live are fairly rare. There is almost always something else shooting at or locking on to one or both esfs.

    Where they are op:
    1. You get no indication on the minimap where the lock is coming from until the missile is launched. So the first hit can be free and the target is automatically handicapped with loss of fire suppression, health, or both.
    2. You can't run away. Very rarely anyway. No amount of afterburner gets away from an A2A lock and running away lets the lock user just chase and lock again. A free kill. You can at least run away from ground locks. So you must turn and fight the other ESF before the second lock or let them give chase and peck you to death.
    3. They are supposedly a noob weapon to let noobs enjoy esfs. But noobs are also a target of A2A locks and they are less likely to be able to deal with them.
    4. The whole game is reduced to who sees who first rather than who can aim/fly better.

    Where they fit:
    It's a futuristic game and crap like this would be expected. But I suspect in the future, the minimap would be sophisticated enough to show the esf that is trying to lock on. Just as I suspect it would be sophisticated enough to show the liberator spamming dalton rounds. But it isn't. They should fix that.
  9. fart11eleven

    Well, a reverse maneuver is really only useful when it is up close combat. If you as the A2AM player try to close the distance and hunt him down and let yourself get "reverse maneuvered", then you are doing something wrong and don't really know what you are doing. Pilots like this usually go down very fast.

    On paper yes, cause the "ace pilot" has higher dps. But i would say if both know what they are doing, the A2AM pilot will win. It depends on the situation (what is a "true 1v1 duel") and the loadouts used. But generally the tendency will be for the A2AM pilot, as was the general tone of this thread so far. By the way, agree with everything else you said. The HUD indicator i also thought before.
  10. Taemien

    Standard nosegun is NOT a A2A loadout. Its an Empire Specific flavored Basilisk. As I said before, its not Tomcats that's going to get you. Its that rotary. If you fought with a Saron/Mustang/Needler vs a Hailstorm/Votek/Rotary you'll lose.
  11. Poppington

    Ehhhhhh - I disagree. The accuracy you get from the default guns often outweighs the dps of the close range ones. I'd rather bring a default to 70-80% of my A2A fights. Depends on the range, of course.
  12. Ronin Oni

    A2Am are not OP, they are functioning as intended IMO. They are an air superiority choice and should function as such. If they did NOT confer a significant advantage to decide a clear winner between 2 equally skilled pilots, then what the flying frick is the point?

    That said, AB pods are unquestionably UNDER POWERED, and need some significant buffing
  13. Ronin Oni

    most dogfights are done inside rotary ideal range... that's why they have the stats they do.
  14. SW0V

    Do you honestly believe that nosegun + AB is easier than CQC nosegun + Locks? I know you're primarily an infantry player, but come on.... surely you realise that that's simply not true.

    It's weird because you contradict yourself:
    1. you say that A2A missiles should be the air superiority loadout
    2. you say people go the path of least resistance
    3. you say nosegun + AB is as mainstream as it gets

    So, which is it? Is it that people go the path of least resistance and use the OP weapon? OR, is it that people prefer to actually use something that requires a little bit of skill? It can't be both.

    At what point in my comment did I 'complain'?

    My comment didn't even have anything to do with A2A balance. It was just pointing out that what Iridar said about 'always choosing the easiest option' is not true for, IMO, MANY people and not just a handful as he claims as he later admits himself that nosegun + AB is the "mainstream" loadout.
  15. Reclaimer77

    In my experience yes, it is.

    The thing is the lock-on reticule is pretty small. So if you have the skill to hold an enemy ESF in that circle long enough to get a lock, you could have already done WAY more DPS to the target with the nosegun.

    That's my opinion and observation as a primary infantry player who screws with air once in a while.
  16. Iridar51

    My assertion that even if A2A missiles were stronger than nosegun and AB - which they're not, as lack of popularity indicates - it would be okay, because that's what A2A missiles are supposed to be used for.

    People use what's stronger, not what's harder. Everywhere people go they ask "what is the best X for Y", because they want to use strong stuff to pwn people.

    If people use nosegun + AB, it must be because it's stronger.

    I guess it's possible that A2A missiles are "hidden OP", and people don't use them because other pilots hate dying to them, and when somebody asks what to use they say "use nosegun + AB".

    As I barely if ever fly myself, I'm not sure if A2A's are actually OP or not. But even if they are, it's OK, because that's what they are for.

    It's basically the same as if tank pilots would start complaining that AV secondaries are OP.
  17. LodeTria

    You don't use A2A pods if you are in the middle of a fight at "normal" ranges. They are a long range weapon, and keeping an ESF in you sights becomes far easier at the ranges it's generally used, and noseguns are not as effective at these ranges either unless the person you are chasing is just not even trying to dodge at all. The bugs with multiple locks further enforce the usage of A2A pods as a long range weapon, be it intended or no.
  18. Reclaimer77

    Dude look up the stats. Noseguns get like 10 times the number of kills as lock-ons do....
  19. SW0V

    As an experience pilot I can tell you that your opinion is just wrong. You lose exactly 0 DPS by locking someone during the reload cycle of your nosegun. But I'm not here to dispute the A2A balance because I agree that A2A missiles are fine! I don't understand where you people got the idea that I don't think this.

    I'm just here to say:

    FYI, the thing that Iridar said, which I originally said I AGREE WITH. Is that A2A missiles SHOULD be dominant in 1v1.
  20. Ronin Oni

    Well, that's because when you use lockons they do the bulk of the damage and the nosegun finishes them off

    Source: I use TomCats