A2A lock ons still OP

nerf libs

how about using max flares and max stealth?
oh right, you probably need to have fire supression to actualy kill other ESFs, right?
tubad

"dedicated A2A pilots" who are not using A2A lockons and insist on fire suppression being the meta are so damn ridiculous...
and of course, never would they come to the conclusion that if they actually got good and would win duels without fire suppression, they could easily counter any lockons there are, including coyotes, with max stealth, flares, and boosters

Disclaimer: I'm a borderline skyknight, so take my stance as you will.


A2A isn't that bad in isolation, and I can generally down any ESF running them with a nosegun alone, but the issue comes from cumulative damage.

I can fire off a missle, and loose 5+ rounds from my primary before the missle hits you. That makes for some massive alpha damage, especially if you or your target is lagging slightly, or the server decides to apply all the damage on this tick. On top of that, it's guaranteed damage. If you lock, you've got a hit 99.9% of the time.

We need to be able to dodge them (without flares, though not too easily. Flares need a use as well. ), as well as placing a slight cooldown before switching weapons to lower the alpha damage a bit. Maybe force a reload before switching?

Nothing in game should guarantee damage in any way shape or form, not even lock ons.

We need to nerf this attitude.

lockons have a hard counter (flares), why nerf them even more?
if you equip A2A on your esf and the enemy you are firing at has flares, you just lost your advantage of suprise, and if the enemy, being a dedicated A2A pilot, has fuel pods along with that, your esf is just unable to keep up with the enemy that just countered your flares and can run away from you anytime he wants

i have the slight suspicion that people just want to be able to take hornets/lolpods with them while negating infantry fire with fire supression and NOT be at a disadvantage against A2A lockon ESFs at the same time

I think making flares use an ammo mechanic, rather than the current cooldown mechanic, would be an improvement.

I agree with that, changing it to ammo would let you stay free of lock ons for a longer period but would have the downside that it forces you back to a landing pad to re-arm. I'm guessing 2 flares at level 1 and then each level gives an extra flare.

Would be nice if there was a 'jammer' as a secondary as well, this would have a longer operational time than a flare and block lock ons for anything in a set vicinity, but obviously means you lose your secondary and during operational use would not let you fire any weapons. Would let some esf's act as support to disrupt AA or protect against A2A users. This would mean AA would now have to either rely more on maxes and lightnings or focus on taking out the EW esf first before hitting the others. Any aircraft running the jammer would get say 10 XP for every time a lock on is attempted on a friendly but fails.

Just to expand on that, if the range of the jammer is 400m, you would have to be within 400m of the missile source, not the target aircraft.

You don't see anything wrong with the fact that the best way to handle A2As is to hit your flares and run away?

Yes, you can run flares. I'm not arguing that they're OP because they don't have a counter, I'm arguing that they are lacking skill and player engagement on both ends. If I see "Lock A" with flares, I press a button, problem solved. Is that engaging? Is that fun? No.

If I see "Lock A" without flares, I can consider myself at 50% health before it ever hits me, because no amount of skill will allow you to dodge it without it's hard counter. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Regardless of skill, you are going to take damage without flares, period. That is neither engaging, nor fun. It feels like somebody just negated all of the time you've spent learning to fly and maneuver because someone gave them an easy button, and you happened to be without it's counter-easy button.

Any hard counter should be supplemented by a soft, skill based counter (such as maneuvering the missles into the ground), yet we don't have that. Hell, I'd be fine with them buffing A2A, if it meant that I could utilize skill rather than playing loadout roulette to dodge lock ons.

Also, I'm sure there are pilots out there that only want to farm A2G. I'm not one of them, and I hope you're not insinuating that I am.

There are counters to air locks that don't require flares, but they involve smart flying, experience, and great situational awareness,. These are traits a lot of people don't have in the air. Break their line of sight and you won't get hit. You can do this either by ducking behind cover, or flying past them. Obviously this doesn't work if you're already engaged in combat with someone else, which is when probably 95% of my lock-on deaths occur. I would consider this to be a skill-based counter to tomcats. It's not the expected "I did this counter maneuver and dodged the missile" skill people want, but it is nonetheless a skill.

Lol, just try preventing me from locking on on you.... that doesn't work on someone who knows their stuff.

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The amount of idiocy is attrocious. People actually think flares counter a2a lock ons? That's so stupid.

Came back this week, been flying every day and haven't been shot down by a single lockon, not even from the Ground.

What I HAVE noticed being a major problem.... is players who move faster in every single Axis than any other ESFs. It's kind of subtle... but most of them are brand new characters, or all relegated to only 2 outfits. We're talking about people who just instantly *POP* into a really fast reverse maneuver ... instantly going in reverse without so much as rolling or even changing pitch / Airbrake stopping yet can also catch up to you easily while you're afterburning straight upwards in a Racer frame Reaver. I've seen half a dozen of these guys now and they just DOMINATE every fight. ... they can easily close the distance to you faster than it takes to get a Lockon on them and we know they're not running Stealth plating because they always regen health after every fight and never land to rep.

So how useful are Lockons, really?? If I'm using Toms perfectly, and I'm just hovering back where it's safe ... and I hold my REticle on these guys as soon as they're in Render, and yet they get into close Vortek range before my maxed out Lockons are even ready to fire ... then what the hell is even the point of Lockons? If I haven't been shot down once by them.. then how are they any good?


I bring up that second point about all Axises... b/c I think it could even explain Coyotes if they're actually a "problem"... I'd also add that Zombo's really onto something when it comes to FireSupression too. It's also part of this secret Meta that has been a LONG running vulnerability in all of Sony's games which are now "DBG's" games and nothing is going to change on it now that it's a discount B publisher at best

Your success depends on my position and proximity to you. If I'm at a high altitude, I expect to be more vulnerable to air locks. It's a trade off, less ground threats, greater air threats. If I choose not to fly at high altitudes, your lock-ons aren't gonna work most of the time. That's the whole "smart flying, experience, and great situational awareness" thing I was talking about.

Flares are a crap utility for what they are supposed to be. They just aren't good enough for inexperienced pilots to survive against lock-ons, and they sure as hell aren't good enough for experienced pilots to take over fire suppression. Flares could use a buff for the former, but the latter would require either a nerf to fire suppression, or a buff to A2A missiles. I don't think anyone who flies often really wants to see either of those things, unless they are pretty new to it.

I don't have a major problem with A2AM.

* With what you are saying, They are THE A2A-only Wing Mount Loadout. (Fuel Tanks are NOT an A2A-only Wing Mount Loadout)
* They reward surprise and situational awareness and risk aversion.
* They enable multiple low skill ESFs to take on/out a high skill ESF.
* They don't overly negatively impact the ESF flying experience (or potential flying experience) of most players in the game, given alternatives.

I WOULD like to:
* add perma Air Radar that shows all Air over uncontested enemy Air space to those enemies. (Big Map and Mini-Map)
* buff Flare so that it was more effective vs. A2AM
* buff Engagement Radar to also list distances to targets in FIELD-OF-VIEW also (and perhaps make Engagment Radar standard).
* explore being able to manually button control fixed direction of thrusters. (no more thrusters that swing free and ESF have to dance around to get them into the position they want)
* add clear position of thrusters in 3rd Person view of SCythe.
* making the 1st Person ESF dashboard convey useful info (like position of thruster, etc.) in place of the bits of thematic fluff art that are dropped in next to the current info stuff.
* nerf Air Hammer's A2A power vs. ESFs.
* give every Faction a "quick fire" G2A Infantry Launcher option like the Striker.

I can appreciate that you don't like having A2AM. But they are conducive to a more playable and consistent game for the general playerbase, and removing them would create a more toxic and inconsistent game for the general playerbase. This is not to say they can't be improved or that other solutions might not be better, but it is saying that Nosegun Only dominant ESF A2A is bad for the general game.

I Honestly don't really get the fuss will the airgame anyway.

Being a poor TR peasant, im forced to use AV base turrets, AA base turrets and my trusty ML-7.

You just wait for them to hoverfarm(Scythes are the easiest to hit) and blow the crap outta them.

Plus you can just fire without warning