A tip to skyguard scrubs to avoid lib deaths

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DaRealNattyIce, Jun 7, 2015.

  1. Hatesphere

    a skygaurd is exposed to just as much crap it cant even fire back at, so whats your point? skygaurds hardly 1 V 2 libs even in the back lines, its usually 2-3 skygaurds required to lock a lib out (even then one half awake can get away). any good skygaurd player though isnt going to hang out right in the back, you have to take some risk.

    keep putting words in my mouth though, all i want is a close range damage buff, not a long range AA buff.

    libs should be afraid to hug an AA unit. it should have more risk.

    its also cute you think I am talking about MBTs.... MBTs vs libs is currently fine.
    • Up x 3
  2. CipherNine

    You are still not nearly as exposed as Liberators are. The two are incomparable. There is no reason for you to sit on the very frontline when you can be 150m back behind some piece of cover.

    You are now backtracking...
    Only legit complaint you can make is that Libs are overpowered in small fights. They are. But they are also underpowered in large fights. End result is that they don't surpass tanks in terms of KPH.

    I would agree that Libs need to be less lethal in smaller fights and have much more survivability in larger fights. But you aren't proposing that, you just want flat out nerf.
  3. ColonelChingles

    The statistics clearly show that the Liberators are better AA than Skyguards are.

    Aircraft Kills Per Hour
    Liberator Dalton- 10.92-12.82
    Lightning Skyguard- 5.61-5.98

    The Liberator is obviously so OP because it performs about twice as well as a Skyguard at AA duties... and the Liberator is supposed to be an A2G unit!

    Honestly this degree of absurdity would be funny if it wasn't so game-breaking.
    • Up x 5
  4. Gutseen

    Libs arn't lethal at small fights at all, but if u get one in a mbt fight its over.

    each time lib passes i can give 100% chance that a tank is dead.
    and 3 fully lockdown certed maxes cant shut it down with double burtsers in time to save that mbt.

    so 3 450 nanite pulls cant counter 1n lib

    air needs to be more fragile in this game- 1n lock-on and Esf is on 10% hp, libs taking in count that a skyguard can take out 50% of their hp, buff the Valk to it'll be a small heli like thing.

    and there u go, air does what it was intended to do - sky fights and frontline raids, NOT instagibbing tanks and ground troops
    • Up x 1
  5. Goretzu

    With a genuinely good Lib pilot a Skyguard won't even see the Lib till they are landing the first shot, there aren't that many of those pilots around though.

    If you know they are around you've got to keep moving, watch your angles and keep to cover where possible (and a prayer to Vanu might help :D ).
    • Up x 1
  6. Yessme

    that is the badest **** ever........

    If an Harasser comes from Back, with Vulcan, Enforcer, Sharon, that skyguard will die Too, now Harasser OP??????
    If a other Lightning Comes from back, Skyguard die too, now Lightning OP??????
    IF a Sundy comed from Back, that skyguard die Too, Sundy OP?????

    That video Just dump........ No reason for Post that Video.....
  7. Hatesphere

    they skygaurd is not designed to be effective against any of toughs other things. it gives up a lot just to be mediocre at hitting air. even if a skygarud manages to notice the lib cresting the hill behind it, the damage it can deal before being gibbed is is pitiful. hell a skygaurd has an easier time against a vulcan harasser that ambushes it, and it not even geared to kill them.
    • Up x 4
  8. RykerStruvian

    The only credit I'll give people who complain about air is that ESFs, and libs especially, can facetank skyguards. I've seen it happen plenty of times. But I wouldn't necessarily blame that on the skyguard or call for a buff/nerf. I think the issue is that there aren't enough other players playing AA for that to happen. I see more HAs pulling Phoenix/deci/shrike than I do Hawks, for example.

    Basically, I think it's a mix of different issues which creates unfavorable situations for the skyguard and favorable situations for the liberator. However, I do believe the skyguard should get some options specifically for air deterrence. Currently, I think the best option is to invest in vehicle stealth for a skyguard, but I would like to see module options. Here are some examples:

    Lead Indicator Module: would give Skyguard user an overlay with a lead indicator used to target specific ESF.

    Skyguard Tracking System: would give Skyguard a semi-tracking turret. I know people say 'real life is real life, blahblah' but I'm just saying it could work, fit the game, and make sense. In other words, Skyguard would lock-on aircraft and auto-track targets, requiring the operator to really only hold down their fire key. However, a trade off could smaller angle of engagement, such as being unable to move the turret below 45 degrees from the center (So it will be stick in a permenant <, unable to level out with the chassie).

    Those were two ideas I had. I think the tracking system could work and wouldn't be cheap, as the Skyguard would still be essentially missing targets, because the shots would not be leading shots. But it would definitely punish anyone who tries to 'hang' or 'hover' for too long, as well as make it easier for ground assets to engage without taking damage from the Skyguard, while also leaving the skyguard very vulnerable.

    These two options/modules wouldn't be direct buffs to the skyguard as the stats would remain the same, however it would hopefully make it easier to use for players, new and old, and might even entice more people to play AA without touching any stats anywhere.
    • Up x 2
  9. CipherNine

    Colonel, apparently other weapons are doing Skyguards job quite well because Liberator actually has lower
    kills per hour than MBTs ( pilot+driver). If Skyguard needs to be buffed because it is AA hard counter then other AA weapons need to be nerfed.

    Other option is to increase ESF resistance to Lib weapons. But even that would reduce Lib KPH so its A2G would still require a buff or non skyguard G2A would require a nerf
  10. teks

    Skyguards are a nighmare for libs. OP is right, skyguards need to learn to move. Moving makes the libs job 1000% times harder. Switch to 3rd person mode for platform stability.

    To those complaining about skyguards.
    Yes skyguard is a AA counter. 1 man
    But libs are a AV counter. 2-3 man

    There is no reason AA > AV other then the fact that the player carries a bias for the tool he uses.
    This, coming from a dedicated lightning driver. The Skyguard is a brutal effective tool. Especially with a good driver who takes advantage of the lightning's speed to attain an ideal position behind the lines.
  11. current1y

    Agree completely and i've thought about what would be a good change for a while. I've always thought they could have a bit more survivablity against single libs. Built in top armor so they need to be 4 shot is a good start. As a lib pilot/gunner I think that would be a small enough change to start and see how it went.

    A damage buff I think would be a bad idea since a single one can still melt an esf and a group of 3 of them really ***** aircraft up quickly as is.

    I am in a Dalton lib for quite a large % of my play time and time and time again I see us Dalton a newbie ESF or MBT only for them to pull a skyguard at the closest base. They plunk at is as we fly over which only leads to their death about 25 seconds late typically from TB / 1 shot w/ dalton combo. I often feel pretty bad as its only the low BR people who do this thinking the skyguard can kill libs. Getting both of their vehicles dunked to the same person within 2 min of each other would be crazy annoying.
  12. ColonelChingles

    What statistics indicate that other AA weapons are overperforming in an AA role?

    All AA, apart from the Liberator Dalton and questionable data on ESFs (due to weapon switching), is incredibly weak when it comes to actually destroying aircraft. As shown before, MBT performance in fighting aircraft is abysmal so it's not like MBTs are stealing Skyguard kills. Nor is any other form of ground-based AA anywhere close to being as effective against aircraft as the Liberator's A2G weapon is.

    I'm really interested in whatever evidence you have in backing up your claims, and I'm hoping that you realize that KPH and VKPH have nothing to do with AA effectiveness (which is captured by AKPH).
    • Up x 5
  13. Mrasap

    As a stealth solo-libber, I have never had a slight problem with a skyguard. Annoying - yes. But a nightmare - no way. Two lightnings versus solo-lib makes for a tough fight. Three lightnings I flee and alert my tank buddies to feast on them.

    Skyguard is a lackluster.

    *edit* only in northern Indar I have a problem with skyguards, since they can roam around at full speed and I cant disappear behind cover easily.
    • Up x 1
  14. ColonelChingles

    Because a Skyguard gives up everything to be "good" against aircraft. A Skyguard cannot engage enemy ground vehicles (except Harassers). A Skyguard cannot effectively kill infantry.

    A Liberator, on the other hand, is more effective against all targets than a Skyguard is. It is better at killing infantry, ground vehicles, and air vehicles than the Skyguard.

    KPH (anti-infantry)
    Liberator Dalton- 21.4-24.19
    Lightning Skyguard- 8.92-9.17

    VKPH (anti-ground vehicle)
    Liberator Dalton- 12.6-13.97
    Lightning Skyguard- 1.97-2.03

    AKPH (anti-air vehicle)
    Liberator Dalton- 11.06-12.76
    Lightning Skyguard- 5.64-6.02

    So the Liberator is a generalist weapon that is effective against all targets (whether that is good or not is another story). A Skyguard is fairly pitiful at killing both infantry and ground vehicles, so at the very least it ought to be effective at one thing, which should be sending any nearby aircraft crashing to the ground in a flaming wreck.

    This is why AA > "AV", though it might be better to characterize the Liberator as "Anti Everything" rather than "Anti Vehicle".
    • Up x 9
  15. Demigan

    The whole "it's exposed" argument has been used too much, and is completely false. Whenever people are moving around, where do they look? The ground and environment so they can move without running into walls. Situational awareness is mostly based on knowing the environment you are in, this counts for AA too.
    Aircraft completely ignore the fact that they can use cover, but also that they can use cover that no-one else can use, as well as flight paths that take them far outside of what ground units can follow. This means they can come from anywhere, at any time. I already explained it earlier: they have a sphere of 180 degrees to hide in, rather than a 2-dimensional circle of which you can eliminate a ton of the area due to terrain and spawn restrictions. Even the most dedicated player cannot properly keep an eye on the air unless they stick to one spot, even then it's a hit&miss situation where an ESF can "find" the Skyguard (Skyguard fires), ESF goes away for repairs, ESF uses terrain and by the time the ESF is visible, the Skyguard needs to be happening to be looking in that part of a 180 degree sphere to make sure he sees it. But by then, regardless of a Liberator or ESF, they have a ton of power right over your head.
    And guess what? What's one of the most useless parts of the sky to be looking at? That big patch of blue sky, those ridges that aircraft use for quick attacks but you have a chance of dealing a ton of damage? Or that big rock that hides enemies from view until the last moment at which point it's too late to do anything about it and it's one of the places you can stay safe from all the ground units and regular air units that try to get to you?
    That's the problem: anything that's cover for you, is also cover for aircraft to approach you. In those instances it's not, it means you are limiting your view and giving aircraft more oppertunity to avoid your fire.

    First off, you answer your own question already about the VPH statistics in the quote below "there are 2x less users". So even if they had twice the amount of kills, it would still mean that they have the same VKPH as the MBT's. So using VKPH without the amount of users is misleading immensely.
    Everything can be focused fire, Liberators are no exception. Yes, they can be shot at by more at the same time, but there's a lot less AA weapons around than ground weapons (and even less AA types available). Also, read my whole thing about the 180 degree sphere you can hide in. That's a lot of area.

    Eh? How do you define "pro"? Imagine if we started calling 100% of the Liberator users "pro". The whole point of a Pro is that he's much better than the rest in what he does. Unfortunately, we are talking about one group: Liberator users. What does amount of users mean to the amount of pro players? Imagine if it had 1 player in the whole game who uses the Liberator, and he crashed into every tree he can find... is he a Pro player? He's the best (only one) using it.
    The amount of users doesn't say anything about the amount of pro users. The skill required to achieve something, and subsequently the skill needed to adjust that skill against various counter-tactics, mean something. If it's incredibly hard to kill anything with it due to maneuverability (With Liberators that's a major factor), then it takes skill. But once learned, it stops being very hard as targets have almost no way to escape or use effective countermeasures. Any vehicle, whether attacked from the front, sides, back or top by a Standar Liberator (Standard=Tankbuster) will get wrecked pretty much, If it survives the bellycanon can finish it off easily. Most tactics that would work such as hiding out in buildings and using cover to force it down to your weapon elevation help, but are not exactly the best tactics for regular play, meaning you'll set yourself up to get ambushed, C4red, caught by Heavies etc.
    And look at what some people say: "Hide out in larger tank columns, less chance they kill you!"
    The fact that people advocate a tactic that says "use chance and allies as shields to 'beat' them" should already be a big neon sign of how this vehicle is balanced.

    If only any aircraft user would admit things like "this is completely out of balance" and "we've got 5000 little advantages over ground units".
    • Up x 3
  16. FBVanu

    Please, stop the math equations.. they do NOT apply in game, they only apply on paper.

    As was said here, IF a Liberator sneaks up on you, you're dead, no matter what vehicle you are in.. and that is perfectly fine. That is the same as getting hit with a rocket launcher or AP shell to the face, while walking around a corner.. there are some big guns with big damage output, on most of them are mounted on vehicles that can not hide.. you can hear them, you can see them, your faction puts them on the minimap for you.... Some of those big things are Liberators with TankBuster guns.. they'll kill you quickly. Get over it, get more awareness.. get better at being paranoid and learn to avoid them. If you don't notice them, you die. Like most other things.. its usually the thing you didn't see that'll kill 'ya..

    But if you are a bit more aware.. drive TOWARDS the Liberator.while they are shooting at you with their TB. it shortens their time to shoot and leaves only two options:
    1) Suicide into the ground
    2) Break off the attack..

    and when they break off, I can turn my skyguard turret and put a bunch of damage in their rear..
    Just like the OP said. It is counter-intuitive to most people.. drive towards the Lib ?? YES.. it works.

    To most other posts regarding the Skyguard:
    The SKYGUARD is a GREAT weapon platform.. It's perfect, it works, as intended, almost all of the time..(more than most other weapons) it's a different playstyle, maybe that is the issue for most complainers.

    If anyone has issues with the Skyguard. you need to practice more, watch more videos and ask for more advice.... plenty of players make the Skyguard work.... without problems, without whining, without nerf calls etc..

    If you are in a Skyguard, you must be committed to helping, NOT to get kills, to help your faction/squad. Your job is to clear the sky of enemy air.. NOT to kill enemy air. It doesn't matter if they can come right back.. most of the time they do NOT come back.
    Clear the sky.. that's it. That will take time, that will take skill, that will be boring 90% of the time, that means long waits, that means low score, that means low cert gain, that also means be AWARE of where you are, where your friendlies are.. where the enemy air might come from....
    It is is your job to save as many of your friendly pilots as possible, to prevent the enemy air of ground pounding your Sunderer..

    If you can't do that, if you are not willing to dedicate that time and effort to help, if you are not willing to forgo cert gains etc..
    well, then get the heck out of the Skyguard and walk towards the enemy.. good luck.
  17. Ronin Oni


    I don't skyguard much, but I have NEVER been killed by air as a skyguard.


    I have sat around uselessly WAY to often after air evacs the general area anytime I go anywhere though, kinda deters ME from playing the role...

    but Skyguard trumps air. Period.

    Tanks murder the piss outta skyguards though. Usually when I pull AP liughtning I go hunting enemy backline looking for skyguards to help my air brothas out.
  18. Gammit

    Ah, yes, the old call-them-scrubs-then-offer-helpful-tips move. Well-played.
    • Up x 8
  19. ColonelChingles

    Okay... so what happens if I sneak up on a Liberator as a Skyguard? Say I was part of an armor column and a Liberator pays us a visit. But unbeknownst to the Liberator I am not a Viper Lightning but a Skyguard Lightning! So as the Liberator comes in and I sneakily open fire on it, what happens?

    Well chances are the Liberator takes fire, swoops out, repairs, and then either moves off to find easier farms or comes back and makes me a priority target. Chances that the Liberator dissapears in a puff of fire? Slim to none.

    So why is it okay for the Liberator to instagib other things but not be instagibbed in return (except maybe by another Liberator)?

    So why is AA relegated to that role when no other combat vehicle in PS2 is?

    How fun would it be if other vehicles had to experience what a Skyguard experiences, simply "helping" and not getting any kills?
    What if ESF rocketpods would just make infantry targets wince and leisurely seek cover?
    What if MBT AP cannons would just make Sunderers shrug and contemplate moving behind a rock?
    What if Liberator TB cannons would just tickle tanks as a gentle, "hey, just a reminder, I'm a Liberator"?
    What if C4 would just display a warning message to vehicle occupants to get them to move their vehicles?
    What if none of them were expected to actually get kills... if their jobs were not to get kills?

    How fun would that be?

    Let's take it to the extreme. Say all Liberator weapons are changed to the "Redeployer Cannon". When enemies are hit with enough damage from the Redeployer Cannon that would normally kill them, then enemies are instantly teleported to the closest friendly base, Sunderer or spawnroom (whatever is closest). If the enemy was in a vehicle, then the vehicle is preserved and moved (along with crew) to the hex borders. The Liberator gets no EXP or any other notification at all that their target has been forcibly redeployed... only the satisfaction that they managed to temporarily remove the enemy from the fight. Would that be fun? Would people willingly play the role of the Redeployer?

    And if it's no fun for them, why would it ever be a good idea to neuter AA to the point where it isn't supposed to kill?

    AA needs to absolutely kill enemy aircraft that come within their engagement envelopes... not just chase them away. If it's fun for everyone else to get kills, then it should be fun for AA to get kills.
    • Up x 8
  20. Ulas

    I am too lazy to quote all of u so get ready^^

    Libs are significantly harder to use than tanks. I don't think they are too effective And statistics show that.

    Only possible Skyguard buff I see is close range damage increase and long range accuracy decrease.

    Yea. Libs are all around fighters. In bf 4 they tried to seperate dogfighting aircraft from attack aircraft guess what aces still crank up perfect games and both dogfight and kill mbts/infantry with either aircraft.