A Statistical Comparison: TR's T32 Bull vs VS's SVA-88

So... I've been wondering for a while what LMG TR has access to that's relatively comparable to the VS SVA-88 which is by far the most popular VS LMG currently, and after looking around, our closest LMG is the T32 Bull. I was still curious as to how close these weapons compare, seeing as they handle very similarly, they should be very close in terms of statistics, should they not? Here's the hard evidence below:

T32 Bull

Maximum Damage

143 @ 10m

Minimum Damage

125 @ 65m

Short Reload

3.195s

Long Reload

3.565s

Magazine Size

60

Ammo Pool

180

Vertical Recoil

0.3

Min/Max Horizontal Recoil

0.2/0.2

Recoil Angle Min/Max

0/0

Recoil Bias

← = →

Recoil Decrease

13

First Shot Recoil Multiplier

2x

ADS Move Speed Multiplier

0.5x

COF Stand ADS

Still: 0.1
Move: 0.35
Jump: 3

COF Crouch ADS

Still: 0.1
Move: 0.2

COF Stand Hipfire

Still: 2.5
Move: 3
Sprint: 5
Jump: 7

COF Crouch Hipfire

Still: 2
Move: 2.5

COF Bloom per Shot

ADS: 0.05
Hipfire: 0.1

ROF

652 rpm

Projectile Speed

600m/s

SVA-88

Maximum Damage

143 @ 10m

Minimum Damage

125 @ 65m

Short Reload

3.0655s

Long Reload

4.16s

Magazine Size

75

Ammo Pool

225

Vertical Recoil

0.45

Min/Max Horizontal Recoil

0.2/0.2

Recoil Angle Min/Max

0/0

Recoil Bias

← = →

Recoil Decrease

13

First Shot Recoil Multiplier

1.5x

ADS Move Speed Multiplier

0.75x

COF Stand ADS

Still: 0.1
Move: 0.35
Jump: 3

COF Crouch ADS

Still: 0.1
Move: 0.2

COF Stand Hipfire

Still: 2.5
Move: 3
Sprint: 5
Jump: 7

COF Crouch Hipfire

Still: 2
Move: 2.5

COF Bloom per Shot

ADS: 0.05
Hipfire: 0.1

ROF

698 rpm

Projectile Speed

630m/s


Apologies for not having fancy tables and such, but I have no damn clue how to do that.

Regardless, as you can see side-by-side, these two weapons are very similar aside from a few differences, that while small, seem to heavily favor the SVA-88. The few advantages that the T32 Bull have over the SVA-88 are so small that it's beyond me why these LMG's have not gotten a balance go-over. For instance, while the T32 has around a .5 second lower slow reload time, this is eclipsed by the fact that the SVA has a 15 round larger magazine, which allows it to much more easily go for that very quick fast reload which for some reason is faster than the T32's, while the Bull still suffers from a very small magazine size in comparison to other LMG's.

The other advantage the Bull has over the SVA is a lower vertical recoil. However, when using either LMG with no attachments, this recoil difference is nearly unnoticeable, and when a compensator is added, the weapons feel like the same thing.

In conclusion, I'd have to say my main complaints between the two weapons that are obviously supposed to be very similar are the fire rate and magazine size discrepancies. As we all know, TR's faction specific trait is a larger magazine and higher fire rates than the other two factions. If this is true, why is it that these two LMG's that are clearly supposed to fill the same role not abiding by this? VS can have the other major advantages such as ADS move speed, but at least give me my damn faction traits, SOE.

On my TR Char I use the CARV (Stock weapon) while I use the SVA 88 or the Orion on my VS Char. The best of all is the CARV for me. It's nearly the same as the Orion but has 100 bullets in one clip (Orion 50) and the ammo pool is 400 (Orion 250).

Waiting for someone from SOE's explanation on how this is balanced, or even how it makes sense at all.

VX29 Polaris is the weapon you should be comparing them to 143dmg @ 652rpm just like the Rhino and Bull not the SVA-88 which is the Carv-S equivalent...

VX29 Polaris is nowhere near the recoil pattern of the T32 Bull.

the rhino is the polaris equivalent

They should also give back the T32 one extra magazine in the ammo pool. I don't understand why it's 180 currently (was nerfed a while back).

Lets also not forget the oh so important .75 ADS that the SVA and Orion have..... For Planetside vets or even other skilled FPS players side to side movement (ability to avoid shots easier) is a amazing plus....

Why are you comparing two completely different weapons?

They're almost identical. The only notable difference is mag size and reload. SVA.88(0.45 vertical) on the other hand is very different from the Bull(0.3 vertical). T32 has all the characteristics of a precision weapon(652RPM and low recoil), the SVA is quite different.

And let us not forget you get this on two of your carbines. One of which, the jag, is argubly the best carbine across all factions. Then lets not forget about the TAR which is also the best of the 0.75x ARs... But who am I kidding, ofc ourse TR should have this on LMGs too.

The 0.75x ADS movement multiplier and amazingly low reload (not punishable like other 75+ mag LMGs) are what make the SV-88 so incredible. At medium ranges, you either need to hipfire (lol) or ADS and move 50% slower than the SV-88 user, making you much easier to hit. It's like the difference between a ZOE and regular MAX in terms of strafing speed, except this time the faster strafer also has the HA Shield of his choice.

Nothing is a Carv-S equivalent even if seemingly on "paper"; its our worst LMG by far.

Where do you get the recoil stats (basically all the gun stats which aren't shown in-game)?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&type=view&gid=12

Regarding the topic, the Bull has access to SPA, the SVA does not.
Also, if 0.3 and 0.45 vertical recoil feel the same...what does that say about NC complaints regarding recoil?

It's got 143/698 RPM, 100 round magazine, 2x Reflex, exmags, and SPA. It's better than you might be giving it credit for!

ITT we compare 2 different weapons and cry about it for no reason.

The TR have so many advantages in this game (barring the obviously OP ZOE Max) and will not rest until they have absolutely the best in slot for every single thing.

SVA-88 is the best LMG in the game by a mile right now.

<insert non-TR equipment which is good and people like to use> is way OP! Please nerf till it's worse than the TR equivalent. Incidentally, do not touch the areas of the game where the TR has better equipment.

From my experience, it's not. I have 815 kills with it and had it since launch. Someone did the hit patterns a while back and it had the absolute worst even though its ROF is lower than the Carv. Like I said, on paper it's great, in reality, poor. It's probably the worst S variant.

I don't think the Bull is the proper gun to compare... The Carv-S seems more appropriate(SVA-88 is the Orion-S)

It's worse than the SVA-88 for sure, but I think it's unfair to call it a bad gun and I wouldn't even go so far as to call it the "worst TR LMG." It has competitive DPS, good ammo pool, and fantastic attachments. The worst that can be said for it is that it is not particularly accurate on the move, but that mostly skews it toward closer-quarters fighting than the SVA-88, but it does perform admirably in ways the stock CARV can't due to a lack of attachment options.

The worst TR LMG is probably the T32 if only because it's almost entirely identical to the NS-15M but equal to or inferior to it in almost every sense, while also being the most expensive TR LMG. It's not the most accurate gun, but the CARV-S has a niche or two. It has the highest DPS of any LMG that can take an Extended Magazine, for instance (EDIT: Actually the EM6 has slightly better, but it's competitive with the EM6), and it can take SPA and a Compensator which the stock CARV (or indeed, any other TR LMG except the Bull) cannot. Is it ever better than the MSW-R? Well, yes, when you need a whole lot of ammunition. Otherwise perhaps no, but it's still got its place. I wouldn't even call it the worst S gun (that's probably the Equinox) or the worst S LMG (SAW S is a gun without much purpose compared to the EM6, although the Flare is admittedly a good solid all-rounder and probably more versatile than the CARV-S).